Over at "Celestial Junk," Blogging Tory Paul quotes one Wanda Watkins:
"We don't want any family to experience the terrible pain of losing their son or daughter, but if Canada and NATO abandon the Afghan people, the sacrifices Lane, our family and others have made will be for nothing,'' Watkins said Monday.
In other words, there will be no discussion of whether this entire Afghani adventure was a mistake because, well, that would mean some people died for nothing and, Holy Mother of God, we can't have that, so the deaths will continue into the foreseeable future because admitting that this was a bad move would be, you know, kind of embarrassing for everyone involved, and better to keep killing Canadians than look sheepish, know what I mean?
And in a breathtaking display of callous unconcern for anyone else's family members, Watkins continues:
"They deserve your respect. In supporting them, you'll make our loss much easier to bear.''
With all due respect, Wanda, fuck you and your grief. It's not the job of the rest of Canada to continue to let its soldiers die just so you can sleep better at night. At this point, I don't give a rat's ass about making you feel better for your loss now that I know that the price is other peoples' lives. Fuck you and the politically-motivated, neo-con propaganda train you rode in on.
BONUS TRACK: It wasn't that long ago that Prairie Wrangler Olaf suggested that a suitable topic for discussion at the Great Canadian Debate (Motto: "We're working on it, really.") might be whether support for the troops was somehow equivalent to support for the mission.
Note well how Ms. Watkins, as a convenient mouthpiece for Canada's wankersphere, dispels any doubt whatsoever as, in the space of those two paragraphs quoted above, she first clearly promotes support for the mission ("if Canada and NATO abandon the Afghan people, the sacrifices Lane, our family and others have made will be for nothing"), then immediately transmogrifies that sentiment into support for the troops ("They deserve your respect. In supporting them, you'll make our loss much easier to bear.")
To answer your question, then, Olaf -- no, you can't separate those two concepts anymore. Your neo-con colleagues have seen to that.
Next topic, please.
AWWWWWWWWW ... they're so adorable when they have no actual rebuttal and therefore have to feign outrage at the bad man and his language. Apparently, Canada's right-wing, he-men, warblogger chickenhawks really are a bunch of whiny pussies.
I mean, Jesus, even Kate McMillan looks kick-ass next to those weenies.
70 comments:
So let me get this straight.
We invade a country and people die because the Chimp screws it up. We might have actually have won the war, but Chimpy thinks his balls are bigger than they are and invades Iraq ( Oh and now we're gonna invade Iran too Yay! ).
In order for those deaths to have meaning we have to keep our troops there so that more people will die?
What the fuck kinda selfish, twisted ass in head logic is that? These are human fucking beings here. Not numbers on a damned chart! It's bad enough with all the deaths that have happened so far but now the logic to keep them eyeballs deep in the shit is to justify those who have already died? That's fucking insane!
Should we now roll down the sidewalks in major metropolitan cities and mow down pedestrians because the people who have been killed by drunk drivers have died in vain?
Should we head to the poor neighborhoods and start randomly firing machine guns into houses so that the people who die in drive by drug violence don't die in vain too?
Why the fuck doesn't WANDA fucking go to Afghanistan. Maybe her death will have some meaning. Good fucking grief. What the hell is wrong with people? It's sseriously time to chlorinate the gene pool.
sunk-cost fallacy
When one makes a hopeless investment, one sometimes reasons: I can’t stop now, otherwise what I’ve invested so far will be lost. This is true, of course, but irrelevant to whether one should continue to invest in the project. Everything one has invested is lost regardless. If there is no hope for success in the future from the investment, then the fact that one has already lost a bundle should lead one to the conclusion that the rational thing to do is to withdraw from the project.
To continue to invest in a hopeless project is irrational. Such behavior may be a pathetic attempt to delay having to face the consequences of one's poor judgment. The irrationality is a way to save face, to appear to be knowledgeable, when in fact one is acting like an idiot.
Skeptic's Dictionary
good money after bad
waist deep in big muddy and the big fool said push on
--do I need to go on?
You're an idiot. And a fairly poor writer.
You're a piece of garbage, you know that? You don't deserve to live in this country, whose security is guarded by the type of man and woman this mother is grieving.
Nice infringement on others' intellectual property as well, Timmy.
"...transmogrifies that sentiment..."
- Transmogrifies? So, you take English lessons from a Calvin & Hobbes comic strip, then you crap on a grieving mother, and then suggest (as in your blog header) that Canadians in general should share your views? Strange way to influence others over to your point of view.
Also, about "this service you offer called sarcasm" - I don't believe you know what that actually means.
You embarass me as a Canadain.
You disgust me as a person.
I normally would counter your points, but you are so far gone it scars me truly.
As a Canadain?
Anyway, enlist, righty foghorns. Bitching and hissing like schoolgirls on the Internet isn't going to bring gay marriage to Afghanistan any faster.
...don't panic. You'll lose all the Pizza Pop weight during basic.
Here's to Celestial Drunk's upcoming intervention. Hope it takes this time.
my god...
Cynic, you are completely out of touch with any sense of reality. If you oppose the foreign policy of a government, fine. If you oppose the beliefs of a griving mother, fine. This is well beyond both of those.
This post is the most discusting commentary I have ever read. I hope this is a sad joke, but sadly I doubt it...
What you have written is "hate speech" pure and simple and I am going to notify the proper authorities in the morning.
gawd you are pathetic.
A limp dick fuckwad of the first order. Your mother must have cut you off the nipple much too soon and damaged your very small brain.
please enjoy your limited, very limited, so called life.
"whose security is guarded by the type of man and woman this mother is grieving."
"If you oppose the beliefs of a griving mother"
UNLESS IT's CINDY SHEEHAN... and then you are entitled to write 140+ posts and discuss her vagina.
Am I getting the hang of this "waving the bloody shirty" thing yet?
Suggesting that respecting the sacrifices of the troops makes the loss easier to bear for the families is "a breathtaking display of callous unconcern for anyone else's family members"?
Or is this:"Wanda, fuck you and your grief. It's not the job of the rest of Canada to continue to let its soldiers die just so you can sleep better at night. At this point, I don't give a rat's ass about making you feel better for your loss now that I know that the price is other peoples' lives. Fuck you and the politically-motivated, neo-con propaganda train you rode in on." a breathtaking display of uncallous concern for anyone else's family members?
Survey says: the latter.
While describing your post as hate speech is more than a stretch, it's still below contempt. I think everyone reading this recognizes who really disregards other people's family members.
I'm not quite as confident in the interpretation of the family's statement as others here seem to be. However, if Ms. Watkins truly meant to say that those of us who are in favour of re-considering our mission in Afghanistan are not "respecting the sacrifices of the troops" (Patrick's words) then that's bullshit. And (if so) she deserves to be called on it.
Those of you who are adamantly in favour of more soldiers dying and more grieving mothers should either try and defend the point, or at least understand why it's much more offensive than the curse words that CC used in his post.
Cynic, enjoy the freedoms that so many soldiers' deaths has bought you. While you do so, do yourself a favor, learn your history, and grow some manners.
Telling a grieving mother to, "Fuck you"... I don't know if one could get any lower than that. For somebody who labels himself as 'progressive', you sure seem like you haven't progressed very far beyond the knee-jerk reactionary position of the extremist you appear to be.
You're no better than a right-wing extremist. In fact, you're no different in attitude, just positioning. So go ahead and spit teeth; that's no sign of being progressive in the least.
Tough crowd.
http://cjunk.blogspot.com/2007/05/dont-let-door-hit-you-on-way-out.html
You Big Meany . She ( and the chicken-hawks ) was all happy there using her son's corps as a soapbox and spout the Con's sales pitch to this debacle, and you had to ruin it ( and use dirty words to boot).
"Cynic, enjoy the freedoms that so many soldiers' deaths has bought you."
Oh my THAT is funny. From the crowd calling Jack Layton a traitor for merely opposing the war and demanding we withdraw. You know, his democratic right to dissent and oppose?
You idiots wouldn't know freedom and liberty if it walked up and shook your hand.
And all things considered, that line is way funnier than you will ever know...
Cynic, enjoy the freedoms that so many soldiers' deaths has bought you.
If this the case, I'll take the freedoms I have pre-911....
FYI - we are in Afghanistan to protect it's people from the
Taliban and aid it's reconstruction.
You can arbitrarily invent all the fictions you want to rebutt this.
But the quality of this discussion
really disgusts me. You should be
ashamed of yourselves.
In short - You're sick.
Way over the top response Cynic. You could of made your feelings know concerning her comments in much more respectful way. Be a man, Stand up and apologize not for your thoughts but for the way you articulated them
"Be a man"....hahahahaha! Will the wingnuts ever realise that all the hissing and scolding is rather quite effeminate?
Whatever happened to quiet stoicism in the face of unimaginable adversity, which the intemperate and uncivil commentary coming from a mean blogger most assuredly is?
Telling a grieving mother to Fuck off. Now that's classy. Ann Coulter has nothing on you Cynic.
No matter what any of us think of the mission in Afghanistan, (I personally am a Liberal who supports it), ther is a right and wrong way of expressing one's self.
Ti Guy, Please post any comment of mine where you can show me to be a wing nut for any side of the political spectrum. My post to Cynic was one of concern as his comments do nothing but degrade the quality of his past and future posting.
Please NEXT TIME, and I hope there will not be another time like this last one.'DO NOT, I REPEAT ,DO NOT POST SUCH FILTHY COMMENTS BY THIS IGNORANT PERSON FOR YOU SEE IN DOING SO YOU HAVE ONLY UPSET MANY PEOPLE.
THE ONE WHO SCRIBBLED SUCH A DISGUSTING TIRADE IS A VERY SICK MAN AND NEEDS TO SEEK TREATMENT A.S.A.P.
tHANK j.L.w.
To the mentally 'unarmed" weenie cynic and hypocrite who spews "random" nonsense! Actually all nonsense is random which you claim to be so good at. You sit in your chair safe because of Canadian soldiers. The facts remain and you are a rat and should try living in Afghanistan but then again they would probably deport you if the Taliban didn't recruit you first.
Cynic,
Does your mother or father know you write this hateful garbage?
Call 911 and tell them your brain is fried.
"Oh my THAT is funny. From the crowd calling Jack Layton a traitor for merely opposing the war and demanding we withdraw."
I guess getting past the first sentence was a tough enough challenge for you, otherwise you might have realized I'm not part of "the crowd" you are talking about.
"Disgusting."
"Beyond contempt."
"An affront to dignified dialogue."
civility is so overrated
Cynic,
I am an NDP member and progressive voter who disagrees vigorously with the position of my party's present leadership on Afghanistan. Like most Canadians I would love to see more reconstruction and peace-building take place in Afghanistan. Yet I recognize that when confronting an enemy like the Taliban and the narco-gangs which sustain them, such altruistic aims will never be realized unless the Taliban are challenged by force.
We can withdraw, but we need to be honest that the result of such an action is the renewed slavery of the Afghan people before a theocratic movement with a 7th century world view.
Either we as Canadians stand for the concepts of human rights, the emancipation of women, democracy and global civil society or we don't. We can't call for improvement in the world and then run for the door when genuinely oppressive movements like the Taliban make gains. What you and Jack Layton advocate is not peace, but mere hypocrisy.
We can retreat to the North, as the Germans, French and others have done. But if you research the Taliban's rise to power in the late 1990s, you will find this exaxt process led to disaster. Unable to challenge Taliban power in the South, the then-gov't barricaded themselves in Fortress Kabul. The Taliban then mounted a series of increasingly violent attacks which led to their seizure of the entire country within a few years.
Pulling out of the south does not mean an end to the violence. It just means abdication in the south and shift of the main combat theatres of the country to the North where tangible progress on the human development file is in fact occuring. This important, noble work will rapidly be undone in this event.
In this sense, Madame Watkins is entirely correct in her statement. I don't see what you find so offensive about a greiving mother desperately intoning that she wants to the see the selfless cause for which her son died be vindicated.
Although someone like you, Cynic, who is indellibly hostile to your own country's all-volunteer military likely doesn't care about their opinion, you should speak to members of the CF and their families. There are likely some quietly suffering in dignity in your community, as across the rest of Canada.
They will tell you about the depth of sacrifice and the conviction with which Canada's men and women in Afghanistan act daily. It might be a real eye opener as it was for me.
Nearly 100 Canadians have been killed since the 2001 invasion. As Madame Watkins so courageously stated: we owe it to them to not abandon the downtrodden people for whose future these heroes and heroines died. History will judge us harshly if we fail them.
I have a poem inscribed on my wall which you may know. It reads in part: "Take up our quarrel with the foe... to you from failing hand we throw the torch... If ye break faith with us who die... we shall not sleep." Madame Watkins, even in her hour of utmost grief, expressed a sentiment completely in line with this historic lyric.
What has become of the left in Canada? We claim to stand for Canadian values, yet so many in our movement instinctively reject any operation where risks must be taken to assure a brighter future for the world. What will ideologues like you say if and when the first peace keeper dies in Darfur or elsewhere.
That its not worth it? That we,
blessed with wealth and security, can't afford to help the most desperate among our species? Never.
Canada is and should play an active role in bringing hope to a region which has trouble with the concept, let alone the practice of human rights.
A whole generation of Canadians has forgotten the history of this country and willfully turned a blind eye to the geostrategic realities of the 21st century. This is one of the major reasons the progressive movement has never attained government. All the Fiberals and Con-servatives have to do is not act as insolently stupid as you, Cynic, and they will forever win. Because you and your considerable ignorance let them.
One last word - for Madame Watkins, her family, and those of CF personnel still in harms way in Afghanistan.
Whatever controversy is generated by the obscene comments posted by the loco administrator of this blog, he/she speaks only for a tiny, fanatical minority. Even those who vigorously oppose the mission reject his hateful, outrageous rhetoric.
You have earned the right to speak your mind, and all reasonable citizens of this country - regardless of their partisan or ideological perspectives - stand in solidarity with you. In every generation there have been people so ignorant or spoiled that they oppose and undercut the great strides that their country is making. Sometimes, as in the case of this blog, people cross the line and invite the ire of all patriotic Canadians. Opposing the mission does not reflect badly on an individual's patriotism, but attacking the family of a fallen soldier does. It also makes them a terrible person on a more profound level.
Despite such misguided insanity, we can take solace in the fact that every generation of Canadians has also produced people like your son who, acutely conscious of the immense personal risks, sacrifice themselves on ours and humanity's behalf. I know I speak for all Canadians of conscience, politically divided though they are, when I say from the bottom of my heart: thank you.
PS: CYNIC YOU'RE FUCKED, LEGALLY AND OTHERWISE ONCE WE FIND OUT WHO YOU ARE, AND WE WILL! C YA ROUND.
Dr.louis leaky has been looking for the neanderthal connection and here you are in all your ignorance.one has to wonder if you are walking erect,do you still have an excess of body hair and still unbathed like your vocabulary.
Democracy is a wonderful system. Everyone has the freedom to make a complete ass of himself or herself.
Congratulations on succeeding in this endevour. Your lack of even the most rudimentary comprehension of international politics is breathtaking combined with your venal choice of expletives hardy merits even a yawn or a raised eyebrow.
You might add some humour given the lack of content, abysmal writing and vitriolic froth. If nothing else, it might help us pass the time.
It never ceases to amaze that anyone would waste their time on something for which they have so little discernable ability let alone reading such drivel. The essential ingredient to good writing is having something that is worth saying and using the English language with style to express your thoughts.
After we surrender, and the Taliban come here to finish us off, I just hope they kill you first.
Hmmm...I wonder if your statements to Wanda Watkins might fall under Hate Crimes in the Criminal Code.
I wonder if the police would be interested?
CBC Story
(1) Every one who, by communicating statements in any public place, incites hatred against any identifiable group where such incitement is likely to lead to a breach of the peace is guilty of
(a) an indictable offence and is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years; or
(b) an offence punishable on summary conviction.
Wilful promotion of hatred
(2) Every one who, by communicating statements, other than in private conversation, wilfully promotes hatred against any identifiable group is guilty of
(a) an indictable offence and is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years; or
(b) an offence punishable on summary conviction.
Dear Bored:
The courts have interpreted the "hate propaganda" laws very narrowly, as they should. In particular, they keep to speech against "identifiable groups", not against individuals.
Just as well. The entire blogosphere would be shut down were it otherwise.
Identifiable groups?
How about "parents of fallen soldiers."
Cynic's comments are directed at Ms. Watkins because she is a parent of a fallen soldier who was interviewed by the media.
Cynic's outrageous attack could have been directed at any parent of a fallen soldier.
Apparently, someone has been watching the O'Reilly Factor & listening to Howard Stern too long. It is amazing that people actually read this drivel.
Blogging is to the internet what exposing yourself is to guy in a raincoat.
I guess anyone who can watch contestants who can't sing on American Idol becomes a blogger.
This blog makes vacuuming look like an intellectually stimulating experience. At least, when you finish you have something to show for the effort unlike leaving a comment for a person who has the intelligence of a fruit fly.
What is the opportunity cost associated with writing to this idiot? You could have played catch with your son, watched a sunset, had sex with your partner or had a wonderful meal in the time spent trade barbs with this philistine.
As the saying goes, if you wrestle with a pig, you get dirty and the pig enjoys it.
Why waste your time on such a loser?
You have a filthy mind. You are obviously also in the illiterate class .. cannot express any coherent thoughts without the use of vulgar expressions. Probably never made it out of grade 1 or more likely still in it.
You disgust me .. and I am pleased to say .. most of the human race. I hope when you go home .. you son of a .....(that your mother runs out from under the porch and bites you)
you are thev biggest mother fucking asshole in the country. you hide behind your computer and haven't the slightest bit of courage to write under your own name. If you can't get behind the troops maybe you should be out in front of the troops, you moral coward.
After we surrender, and the Taliban come here to finish us off, I just hope they kill you first.
Well, that was fucking retarded.
cannot express any coherent thoughts without the use of vulgar expressions.
CC can, but I can't so fuck you asshole!
I won't comment as others said it better than I could (Raphael Alexander, Andrew E, ddrfreak, Kirby, etc.
I tell you what.
I *hate* the fact that we live in the same country as you make me sick.
I offer you one way airfare to a country of your choice, and based on your despicable post I think Zimbabwe, Democratic People's Republic of Korea, Belarus, Syria, Somalia, Venezuela, and some other countries (subject to my final approval) would be nice new homelands for you.
Please email andy12489@yahoo.com if interested.
Your departure will not only greatly raise IQ in this country but will also make us more decent.
And I am happy to pay for it.
Enjoy your new life!
Andy (Calgary)
Hey cynically anonymous fuckwad..why don't you post your address and phone number if you stand behind your statement?
I'm sure a few people would love to talk to you about it.
Chickenshit.
Leftists everywhere should respect CC's honesty...
No?
For anyone still considering levying a hate crime complaint against CC's post, I think you may want to keep the following in mind:
Wanda Watkins is an individual, not an "identifiable group".
So, as ridiculous and inflammatory as CC's comments are -- and that really seems to be his MO on this blog -- it doesn't qualify as hate speech.
I've read all of the comments on this so far. I've noticed a few that support Can. Cyn.'s position and even the way he presented it.
Hmm, I wonder how many of these supportive comments he wrote himself? Any wagers?
There are those people who haven't the intelligence or creativity to produce anything valuable or insightful so they will never be famous. So they act like assholes to settle for being infamous. Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you Canadian Cynic.
"Hmm, I wonder how many of these supportive comments he wrote himself? Any wagers?"
0.
Apparently you've never been here before eh?
Ladies and gentlemen! I present to you Mike, Canadian "Fuck you Wanda Watkins" Cynic's greatest fan.
Wipe you face, Mike, you've got something all over it.
If Canadian Cynic wasn't simply a BELLIGERENT COWARD who conveniently hides behind his veil of anonimity, he'd disclose his real name and stand up to defend his remarks in public.
And in case Canadian Cynic or others are wondering, there is no hypocrisy in me remaining anonymous in making this challenge, since he alone is the author of his hateful words.
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and consciencious stupidity." MLK.
Congratulations to the Canadian Cynic - you're qualified on both counts.
Why would anyone debate with someone who employs Ad hominem (attack the man) rather than Ad Rem (address the argument) as the primary modus operandi.
"Canadian" Cynic is incapable of formulating a cohesive logical reasoned debate of ideas let alone any discussion of international relations without resorting to personal attacks and expletives. If this is what passes for informed debate in Canada, you have my condolences.
Must concur with Anon. 8:02pm that some of these postings are doubtless from the Canadian Cynic.
Wow you are some piece of work Cynic- stupid and mean- what a charmer!
I don't normally post comments on blogs but I just don't feel as if I can simply ignore this one. I completely understand opposition to war (individual ones or all) and happen to share many of your anti-war views....I have a B.A. in "political science" and a Masters Degree in "gender and peacebuilding" from the United Nations mandated University for Peace. However, I believe that there are productive ways of voicing your opinions and ones which simply increase the large divide between the "pro-war" "anti-war" groups (yours, obviously, falls into the latter category). Making personal attacks on soldiers and their family members rather than on the issues does little to garner support and nothing to resolve conflict. All you have achieved with your crass comments is to further alienate people who might actually agree with some aspect of your argument as it has been clouded by hate and an obvious lack of understanding and compassion. My cousin Wanda's words don't make me feel any better about losing my cousin Lane but yours definitely don't make me more sympathetic to your position....had you bothered to express it in a more intelligent manner, perhaps positive dialog could have ensued. Instead, we are left with a barrage of “rightist” and “leftist” comments and people talking “at” one another...or should I say shouting?....rather than a meaningful conversation or debate.
Additionally, your sarcastic apology and suggestion that my cousin is "enjoying the death of her son immensely" is disgusting. Perhaps you've never lost someone who you love and respect....I hope that you don't know what that feels like...because if you do, and can still say such terrible things, then you've got bigger problems than simply being inconsiderate and immature. Also, why would that be a "right wing thing" to say?? Don't even try to pretend that the words and actions of the extreme "left" are any better than the extreme "right".....you have shown that they aren't.
I for one agree with CC,
The mother of that dead soldier for believing that her son did not die in vain, should be publicly shamed. After all, can we even prove that the Taliban is stripping Afghani women of the basic human rights that we appreciate in Canada. From what I've read in the TorStar, Canadians do agree with thoughtful, well articulated statements like CCs. If only we'd had intelligent and respectful people like the brave and wise CC during the first and second world wars.
//Sarc off
I mean, Fuck! You are an idiot in the broadest sense of the word.
I hope you die in a fire.
Monica, please read this.
Where was this blizzard of shit when commenters like Steve Janke were accusing Ciny Sheehan of using her dead son for political reasons? What, everyone asleep?
My favourite comment here:
you hide behind your computer and haven't the slightest bit of courage to write under your own name....By Anonymous
*herk*
I've never been to your sight before and I will never be back.
You possess no insight, no profound intelligence and no soul.
It must be a very cold place inside you.
wow, what a #@$%. I had thought this was a foray into satire but sadly I was mistaken. Granted halfway throught the first paragraph I realized this. We could argue, which at this point would be pointless. I hope every sane person who reads this blog can muster up the character to forgive you for your juvenile ramblings of foolish vitriol.
Warren Kinsella was right you are a joke.
Damn,I found a cowards blog....cool
Are you gonna reply to me...coward.I want a piece of you.
you foul disgusting piece of shit. Fuck off and die t crap
Interesting thoughts, Cynic.
It's not OK for the so called neo-cons to take us down the Afghani ride but its ok for you and your piece of garbage friends to waste all of our money on your left wing waste of money with no results social programs.
If you're going to bitch about how democracy didn't work for you then respect the rest of us that you and your socialist friends are robbing from and allow us to back out of your adventures...
Pretty disgusting post, you aren't doing anything to help your cause with this.
This is, without a doubt, one of the most disgusting examples of douche bagery I have ever seen.
I sincerely hope that nothing good ever happens to you in your life cynic. May you come down with a nasty case of oral herpes, all over your face, to match the nasty case of syphilis you clearly have that is rotting your useless challenged mind.
Fuck you. Fuck all your family. Fuck any of those useless simpletons that supposedly taught you once upon a time. Fuck off and choke.
Ahhh, a special comment for the fat twat on the motorcycle Mike.
The 80's called, they want their porn 'stache and useless socialist drivel back.
I have noted that most leftie blogs are vile places with horrid language and disgusting attitudes. Petulance in the extreme.
This place is one of the worst. I will never be back here because I hate vomiting.
It is one thing to be against a war, but another to trash and spit upon the mother of a fallen soldier. The writer of this blog is a true piece of sh@t.
And to the fool, Dr Dawg ...In Cindy Sheehan's foray into the world of protest politics, she morphed from grieving mother to antagonizing bitch and useful idiot for the cause of socialism and hatred for anything else.
Hatred of "anything else" is the way of Islam. The left and Islam are the same. They just adore different deities.
Thanks..
Dave kion,
Articles Directory
Plain and simple Robert, you're a cunt
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