"I suppose the logic of "progressive thinking" means that you can condemn entire groups for the actions of a few"
Where to begin with this bit of drooling stupidity. Dear S, I am sure it escapes you that disagreeing with what I have written, in one post and a followup comment, does not indict "progressive thinking" as a whole. In fact you are, within the space of a sentence, doing exactly what you are fuming about. And of course you get the extra comedy points for this broad brush response when your initial criticism in the thread had to do with not marching in lock step with CC, regarding the corporate pharmaceutical biz, dubious efficacy of HPV vaccine and Conservative government tie ins.
Unlike our echo drunk friends on the right, we on the left can agree to disagree on details and issues. We can look at a problem from more than one angle, consider a variety of solutions and still, for the most part, get along.
"I also suppose that the consistency of the church's message regarding sex outside of marriage (despite the hypocritical behaviour of a minority of clerics) offends your relativistic sensibilities."
The church has long held an unhealthy attitude toward sexuality, regardless of marriage. HPV vaccine does not lead to premarital sex or adultery or homosexuality or any other form of sexual activity. Hell, it won't even make you a wanker, you've done that all on your own. Again, you of the wandering goalposts, have sidestepped my point. A few aberrant clerics aren't the issue. A systemic and long term cover-up of those deviants of the cloth is at issue. I'm looking at a hierarchy that enabled the criminal child abusers in their midst, that set up, ran and profited by the cultural genocide of native populations through the residential schools. I'm looking at the men in the biggest gowns and the tallest hats holding forth on public health policy because they believe that sexuality is a sin, that your body is dirty and shameful and that you are condemned from conception until you bend your knee at their altar. I'm looking at the men in charge, the ones running this creepy deviant circus.
The "entire groups" you bleat about, well for the most part people regardless of denomination, are just trying to get along. Most folks, regardless of religion or sect or political stripe, are pretty decent folks. That includes the majority of the clergy. That includes worshippers of allah, jehovah, buddha, the flying spaghetti monster or non-worshippers. Of course it would be unkind of me to note the sort of readily accessible and widely celebrated opinions of your pals on the right, when it comes to worshippers of allah. But that's different, isn't it S? ADSCAM? Shiny thing?
"So much so that even when you have a common cause, like the efficacy of the HPV vaccine, you find it necessary to demand that the church shut up.
Well, congratulations. This is the "progressive logic" that is splitting up opposition to the corporatists and letting them succeed."
The shady old bishops aren't talking about the efficacy of vaccines. They're pimping their demented doctrinal, anti-sex crap, the continued demonization of anything that has to do with human sexuality. So yes, they should shut their fucking yaps. They are not holding common cause in opposition to the corporate culture that would profit by the wide spread distribution of a medicine for good or ill. They are not advising their parishioners based on their superstitious fears and mumbo jumbo, they are making public declarations and attempting to influence policy. They are overstepping the bounds and limitations set on them by the tax code, governing religious and charity organizations and political involvement. If you weren't a hypocrite and a dullard, you wouldn't be refuting an argument that I'm not making. I'm not splitting anything, I am quite specifically arguing that the bishops should shut up, sit down and behave.
"And as for having nothing of value to tell us, the church has been around for 2000 years and will be around a lot longer, which wouldn't be possible if it had nothing of value. On the other hand, you guys will be dead and forgotten soon enough. So much for the "value" of what you have to say."
Well isn't that a fancy yardstick! Prostitution has been thriving since long before the church sat ass no. 1 in a pew, therefore prostitution is a valuable social outlet, preventing sperm retention headaches? What were you saying about relativism? But it's okay if you're a conservative, you have the power of dudgeon and squeak behind you. The church has been around for two millennia therefore it has value to offer, satanism has been around exactly the same length of time, as have a variety of pagan belief systems and atheism for that matter. As for my value or the value of us guys, well, we're not claiming to have the key to eternity and all of the mysteries of the superstitious and invisible world of magical ponies. But that wouldn't be a relative comparison you're trying to twist into a ridiculous knot would it S? No, no... you're just above all of that arguing in good faith bother.