Canadian Cynic: Apparently, it's Stephen Harper's Canada ...

Tuesday, December 02, 2008

Apparently, it's Stephen Harper's Canada ...

... and you're just getting in the way of his running it however the fuck he wants:

Canada: Because if you're not a Conservative, you can just shut the hell up. Really.

27 comments:

Robert G. Harvie, Q.C. said...: You know what Lulu- we both have 19year old children.. we both would probably take a bullet for them, literally, if it would save their lives.. and we both want a future for them that is hopefully happy and fulfilling.

So.. then why is it that today, at this moment, we can have so little in common regarding current politics? Is it really that I don't want my daughter to have good health care, or a decent wage in whatever she does, or that she's safe while walking down the street? Do you truly think that I don't want her to have the same future you want for your son?

Yet - here, the left attacks the right with abandon, with venom that should be reserved for those f*cks who killed so many in Mumbai.

Think about THAT for a moment. And then go ahead an slag me and the vision that I have.. becuase it happens to be different, in probably very small ways, from yours.; 10:02 AM
James Bow said...: Roblaw, everything you say also applies to a number of right wingers attacking those on the left of the spectrum. If you don't see the venom that's been gushing from your side of the spectrum, you're wearing blinders.; 10:05 AM
liberal supporter said...: It's not what you want for your own children. Everyone wants a good life for their own kids. I would presume even terrorists want this.

The difference is that you want for your neighbour's kid. You certainly would prefer your neighbour's kid to do well, but only by their own efforts. You are quite happy to kick them to the curb if they are not trying hard enough in your judgment, or have some problems that you consider to be bogus. Except for the occasional poster child case that would make a good photo op, you don't think everyone should have guaranteed health care, minimal income support or any kind of quality of life outside of the crumbs you might personally toss them as you step over them on the street.

You think that the "I'm all right Jack" philosophy saves you money and you convince yourself that it is also good for those who bear the brunt of the results. The problem with that is you will pay even more for the police state required to keep your daughter safe while walking down the street.

Nice concern trollery though, a step above the usual BT shtick.; 10:16 AM
The Seer said...: Guys: The banner's in red. Steverino is trying to take the Liberals color; dilute the Liberals brand. Same same "wear red on Friday." I can see why people are fed up with him.; 10:21 AM
mauser98 said...: $1.95 male prostitutes created this dogs breakfast coalition. this abortion will die.; 10:24 AM
Robert G. Harvie, Q.C. said...: ..as soon as I finished the post, I thought, "I have to acknowledge the same thing coming from the right". So - good call, you're exactly right.

And.. the idea that I don't care about my neighbor is as big a stereotype as Liberals and NDP's who are too lazy to make their own way, and so want to reach into my pocket.

The differences are real, but much more subtle than politicians (and bloggers) like to really talk about because tribalist attacks are much more interesting and likely to buy votes.

Que sera.; 10:28 AM
Robert G. Harvie, Q.C. said...: BTW - best post today, "Daveberta".. who suggests that the "coalition" seek out moderate Conservative input to help calm waters in Western Canada.

Thinking, understanding.. what novel concepts.; 10:29 AM
CC said...: mauser98 opines:

"$1.95 male prostitutes created this dogs breakfast coalition. this abortion will die."

So ... hookers, abortion and death. Man, you whingers really need to get a grip on those fixations of yours.

I recommend professional help.; 10:33 AM
Red Tory said...: Gosh, you leftist pinko commie meanies should stop being so AWFUL to our Conservative friends who are full of kindness and loving and... AK47s and... oh, never mind.; 11:11 AM
thwap said...: Roblaw,

I think the differences stem from the fact that you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

What the fuck does Mumbai have to do with any of this?; 11:21 AM
Niles said...: (who suggests that the "coalition" seek out moderate Conservative input to help calm waters in Western Canada.)

What makes you think they won't? They've obviously already been in contact with Bill Casey. Or does he not count since he was punted from Harper's adoration circle like Garth Turner?

*IF* the GG grants the coalition a try at government, I fully expect they will be consulting with whatever reasonable Conservatives are out there and I fully expect Conservatives, even if they are in opposition, to vote FOR good legislation presented by the coalition. If any Cons can be found that haven't been thoroughly cowed by the stint in Harper's run.

After all, if the Cons move to opposition and as a monolithic whipped Bloc vote against all legislation brought out by the new-gov, how does that make them look in the eyes of the public?

I also fully expect the new-gov, if allowed a kick at the can to appoint Conservative senators as well as other party senators. They just won't likely be the ones Harper would have picked.

I also expect very vigorous committees of mixed party reps with a mandate to find what WORKS in these messed-up times, not what looks good to the party leader's ideology. We need ideas more.; 11:21 AM
sassy said...: mauser98 has been trolling all over the place today - it's the new Con talking points; 11:31 AM
Purple library guy said...: Roblaw, one thing that bothers me is that it seems the Conservative party--and I'm not talking about bloggers here, I'm talking about from Stephen Harper on down--seem to be willing to do and say *anything* to hold on to power. They are willing to represent the normal workings of the parliamentary system as a "coup". It looks like Harper would really like to prorogue parliament in order to block the parliamentary majority from getting a chance to vote. They are in short willing to damage the fabric of, and trust in, our democratic institutions for the purpose of keeping power for another month or two.

Whatever the rights and wrongs of Conservative ideology, this particular instance clearly put their desires far ahead of the needs of Canada, not just around the edges but when the clash is at very basic, fundamental levels. Such people cannot be allowed to continue to govern. Even Conservatives shouldn't want them to govern, because a few tax cuts and extra three-strikes laws surely is not worth kneecapping our democracy over.; 1:00 PM
Romantic Heretic said...: Roblaw? I've been on the receiving end of 'conservative policy' when Mike Harris ran Ontario. Thanks to his 'Kick the welfare bums in the nads' policy of reducing welfare by 23% so they'll 'have to get a job' I ended up homeless and very ill on a February night.

So I hope you'll forgive me when I doubt the altruism of 'Conservatives'.

Which brings me to another point. I don't regard the people sheltering under the title 'conservative' as conservatives. I regard them as revolutionaries.

And considering their small numbers, their use of language, their anger and their economic determinism my opinion is the closest historical analog to them is the Bolsheviks.; 1:27 PM
MgS said...: BTW - best post today, "Daveberta".. who suggests that the "coalition" seek out moderate Conservative input to help calm waters in Western Canada.

Moderate conservative - these days that's an oxymoron - especially in Alberta. Anyone who is a moderate long ago left the Reformatory or got assimilated into the HarperCon group-think.

Other than that, Daveberta's got something right - unfortunately I don't think Harper's able to listen.; 1:52 PM
Robert G. Harvie, Q.C. said...: Ok.. pointless speaking to Thwap.. I'm conservative, ipso facto, my opinion is pointless. I see.

More relevant, however, and intelligent, are the comments of Purple Library guy..

Your point is well taken.. and the drive to power, at the expense of the interests of the electorate is a disease that seems to infect everyone in Ottawa. (Adscam?)

If government was not pre-occupied with "getting elected", and truly just was focused on helping the citizens.. much less liklihood of alienation in Western Canada.. but, as you've said, the partisan bullshit from Harper got us here.. but to suggest that any party has a monopoly on "saying what we need to" to get elected, well, you're being intellectually dishonest.

..and this concern over partisan stupidity.. "I'm right because my party says so" has been a concern of mine since long before this recent stupidity came to light.

So.. those of us who think of people as complex individuals as opposed to characterizing those "unlike us" as non-human (can you say Mumbai Thwap??) perhaps aspire to something more..; 2:50 PM
thwap said...: Roblaw,

I skipped most of your self-righteous whining.

You simply don't know what you're talking about.

It's very simple: Flaherty offered the opposition a package that was not only offensive to them, it contained the ingredients of their political suicide, removing their public subsidies without giving them their previous revenue sources which they lost when they got the public subsidy.

What more needs to be explained to you? A minority government asked the opposition parties to commit suicide after approving an economic statement that attacked almost all their principles and which did not offer what all three parties saw as vitally necessary economic stimulus.

That is not how a sensible minority government behaves.

Harper brought this upon himself.

We're happy because we think Harper is a thug and a moron.

I believe you're playing the very definition of a "concern troll" and I think you're way over the top with your drivel saying that our celebrating the government of a party we detest, and the incoherent brayings of its more moronic supporters is anyway similar to the murderous violence and hatred in Mumbai.

Quit making a fool of yourself.; 3:33 PM
Robert G. Harvie, Q.C. said...: ..yes, Thwap.. you of the Mujahideen clearly have made your point that we, the conservatives, are unworthy of consideration in "your canada". You detest Harper, and then embark upon the same course of action.. where your way is the only way.

I mean.. if I'm not understanding you, please clarify.. You hate Harper because he pulled some partisan bullshit out of his hat, that, to cut to the chase, showed he had disdain for the opinions of the other 62% of Canada who didn't vote for him.. is that about right?

And now.. in response, you feel the answer is to now show disdain for the 38% who did vote for him.. just so I understand.

As my thought.. bizarre as it may be, is that there is perhaps more in common between us than some political card we carry in our wallet.; 5:30 PM
CC said...: roblaw:

Please stop being deliberately dense. No one is claiming that what is happening now is the "only way."

Stephen Harper had another choice: Given that he had only a minority government, he could have chosen to keep his pre-election promise and play nice with others. He broke that promise and acted like an arrogant asshole, with predictable consequences.

Stephen Harper brought this upon himself, so stop taking it out on everyone else.; 5:35 PM
Robert G. Harvie, Q.C. said...: CC.. if people like Thwap actually read posts, as opposed to just attacking anyone who isn't doing cartwheels over recent events.. he would see that I have never tried to justify Harper's partisan cheap shot that started this whole fiasco.. my point, however, and the reason that I sort of hang out here.. is that this Country needs new ideas, and if I spend all day with the Blogging Tories crowd, well, what do you learn or share between and with the "converted".

This Country needs to stop with the "I'm Conservative, you're not, so you're an idiot" attitude and visa versa.. and, frankly, this blog is the most heated place on the net for a conservative.. so, I come here, taking the heat, but handing it back.. tit for tat.. but lost in all this is the notion - which was my initial post.. that perhaps we are not as far apart as we think when we're writing with adrenylin-fuelled emotion.

Maybe there is a conservative out there who understands, truly, the need for a social safety net, strong, universal health care, and a REAL environmental policy. Maybe there is an NDP out there who understands that a successful business is necessary to establish a healthy workforce (see CAW).. etc., etc.

My fear is, having been a Liberal, and then a Conservative.. when it all looks broken.. where do you go? The least of 4 evils? Is that it?

Should Harper get booted? Maybe. Is the "coalition" the best way to respond.. coming from Western Canada, I would say, "no", but that's just my feeling... but there are a lot of Western Canadians today, who are still, "Canadians" and who, perhaps, don't need to hear more "fuck you, you're getting what you've got coming" today.; 6:11 PM
thwap said...: Roblaw,

If someone supported Stephen Harper, and supports him still, then yes indeedy-do, I'd say "fuck you, you're getting what you've had coming."

And there are reasons for that. And if you'd knock it off with your concern trolling and actually read stuff instead of bumbling around saying "gosh ....

You know what? This is a waste of my time.; 8:19 PM
Cameron Campbell said...: Why is any talking to roblaw after that mujadin (sp) comment?; 9:00 PM
liberal supporter said...: Why is any talking to roblaw after that mujadin (sp) comment?
Because he's the best they have. Certainly a cut above the likes of neo, hunter, potatohead, joanne, PR and sandy, no?

Even though he mainly wants to establish that our differences are small, and that all politicians are equally bad, he at least argues.

It is a pleasure to read some thought even if I don't agree, and not just name calling and browbeating.; 9:28 PM
Sheena said...: It really bugs my ass when "Western Canadians" deem to speak for us Western Canadians...; 10:55 PM
Robert G. Harvie, Q.C. said...: Thanks Lib Supporter.. exactly my point.. and I don't "represent" Western Canadians, I suppose I represent my own thoughts, as a western Canadian.

Anyhow.. suppose we'll see what happens.. I'm a little less shrill today, but still, concerned, regarding where we're going..; 10:01 AM
Metro said...: Roblaw, you sound quite reasonable on this thread in so many ways.

But I really feel you'd best leave Mumbai and the word "Mujahadeen" out of this--you're travelling at the speed of Godwin there, and it undermines your argument.

Me, I hope the coalition does exactly what you've mentioned and speaks to whatever progressive conservatives are left since the Alliance/Reform reimagining of Coaservatism brought the brand into disrepute, and Rovian politicking to Canada.; 12:30 PM
Robert G. Harvie, Q.C. said...: ..maybe so Metro.. but my point is that it is so wrong to become so dogmatic, whatever party we support.. and at times, on the left and right, it seems we're not much more rational than.. well, you know..; 1:26 PM

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