Wednesday, June 17, 2009

It's because they lie all the time: Part 6,842,009.


Oh, sigh. You know, this whole outing thing has gone from initial fear and panic to a depressing ritual of discovering and documenting the next lie out there, typically at a wanker blog that is happy to publish the most egregious dishonesty imaginable but has explicitly banned me from commenting so that I can correct the record.

Here's the latest stellar snippet from over at Suzy ALL-CAPS, Canada's most deranged and dishonest fetus fetishist:



That would, of course, be the infamous Patrick "Twatsy" Ross, who is well-known for lying about everything, all of the time. Let's deconstruct a bit of the above slowly and methodically, and I'd like you to pay close attention because I want to demonstrate Patrick's basic modus operandi -- that is, how he lies. Because he has a pattern, and it's worth seeing what it is.

Here's the relevant snippet:

No, he told them to find out where Evans' kids go to school, and then tell him.

And away we go. Note that there are two independent claims being made here:
  • I told people to figure out where Dick's kids go to school, and

  • I wanted them to send that information to me.

Did you catch that? Two quite separate claims, which we will now deal with independently. First, did I encourage people to figure out where Dick's kids went to school. Why, yes ... yes, I did, here:

So far, we know (from totally public information available online) Dick's family situation, and even his home address and phone number (107 Beddington Cr NE, Calgary). So what are we going to do with that? I'm glad you asked.

Based on that information, it shouldn't be hard to figure out where his children go to school (again, most likely public information based on residence). And from that, it should be relatively easy to get a list of relevant local teachers and school board members (again, openly public information). And once that's in hand, it should be a piece of cake to make sure all of those responsible individuals are educated as to Dick's disturbing predilection for online child rape and promotion of child sex.

I'm thinking maybe a mass e-mailing to school board members. Perhaps notes to the teachers. Or, heck, why stop there? How about a mass delivery of eye-opening flyers in local mailboxes? Yup, I bet that would get someone's attention. ("Dear concerned parent: Let's talk about Richard Evans, shall we?")

So, there is no question that I was explaining how easy it was to determine -- from publicly available information -- where Dick's kids went to school. And why was I suggesting people do that? Go back and read carefully. Why, it's because I thought that teachers and parents related to that school might want to know what kind of dangerous cretin they were dealing with, given Evans' open obsession with NAMBLA. Granted, I could have phrased that more diplomatically, but I don't think there's anything untoward with wanting to warn local parents of the creepy, NAMBLA devotee in their midst. Wouldn't you want to know that sort of thing? In any event, what we've established is that the first part of Patrick's claim is completely correct. And this is where Twatsy is Twatsy, as he then takes what is effectively accurate information ... and embellishes (emphasis added):

No, he told them to find out where Evans' kids go to school, and then tell him.

Do you see what just happened there? Twatsy set things up with an accurate and fairly innocuous accusation, then smoothly continued on to add some blatant dishonesty on the end, hoping no one would notice. Because, as you can see, I at no point asked people to send me that information. And I wouldn't because, frankly, I don't care about it. To this day, I don't know what school those kids go to, and I have never asked anyone to tell me. And this is what makes Twatsy's accusation so enlightening.

You see, this is how Twatsy works. A close investigation will reveal that Twatsy has a couple styles of dishonesty. The first is as above -- two-part claims, where the first part is true but uninteresting, immediately followed by a far more incendiary -- but false -- accusation. And if you call Twatsy's bluff and complain that that second part isn't true, he will immediately and deliberately misunderstand your objection, and start pointing out how the first part is obviously accurate and LOL, ROTFL, man, you're dishonest! You can argue in vain that that's not what you're talking about, but it will do no good.

The other kind of Twatsy dishonesty is the bait and switch, where he will relentlessly claim, say, "A" (which would be accurate), then without warning switch to claiming a superficially similar "B" which isn't the same thing at all, and hope you didn't notice.

For example, one can claim that "CC published Dick Evans' kids names on the Intertoobz." Yes, I did -- and as Dick himself has openly admitted, that information was publicly available from his own web site, and he also admitted that he had absolutely no problem with that. So, yes, the claim above -- as it is worded -- is perfectly true, and utterly, yawningly unexciting.

Where things get interesting is where Twatsy (or someone else with a similar lack of interest in truth) will suddenly switch to saying, "CC outed Dick's kids on the Intertoobz." Truly stupid people will not appreciate the difference in those two claims, at which point they will get shriekingly frothy about that bad, bad CC, not realizing that they've been suckered, bait-and-switch style.

Those are pretty much Twatsy's two approaches to discourse, both of them depressingly misleading and dishonest. And, as with other blogs in the Canadian Dumbass-o-Sphere, Twatsy is allowed to freely make such dishonest claims, while I am physically prevented from joining the discussion to correct the record. Such is the Dumbass-o-Sphere, where cowardice and dishonesty is a way of life. But there's one more point that deserves addressing.

When it is explained to the initial stupid frothers that I outed no one, and that all of Dick's kids' personal info was placed in the public domain by Dick himself, the argument suddenly morphes into, "Well, uh, OK, uh, but that's still tacky. Even if Dick did that, it's still beyond the pale to even link to it to reproduce it. That's just as bad!"

A reasonable argument to make -- that even if someone else posted damaging and dangerous personal information, that doesn't give you the right to keep repeating or reproducing it. Or, that would be a good argument, except that others in the Dumbass-o-Sphere have already weighed in on that argument. Like here:

The students, by definition of their actions, were terrorists. And as typical ‘progressives’, meaning stupid publicity hunting liberals, released a PRESS RELEASE INCLUDING THEIR NAMES AND PHONE NUMBERS! Malkin just linked to their own press release.

That would be commenter "Ian" over at Wendy Sullivan's, making it clear that once information is in the public domain, hey, tough shit, you're fair game. And I don't see Wendy arguing the point, and it wouldn't do me any good to try to point it out over there since, as I've mentioned before, I've been banned from commenting at Wendy's because she really has no interest in facts, but I would have enjoyed pointing out the hypocrisy.

I apologize for babbling on this long but, seriously, it needed to be done, if only to very carefully demonstrate what's going on out there. Sometimes, the lies are howlingly blatant. Other times, they're more subtle and you have to be paying attention to catch them. But you can rest assured on one point -- if Patrick Ross is saying it, there's going to some dishonesty in it somewhere. You may have to work to find it, but it's always going to be there. I guarantee it.

And, on a more general note, it's really getting uninteresting documenting the increasing dishonesty related to recent events, but I think it's worth it, if only to make painfully clear the type of people we're dealing with here. Seriously, you can't help but notice the increasing desperation and smell of flop sweat as the right-wing Wurlitzer comes up to speed, pumping out bigger and bigger lies, while slamming the doors of discussion on anyone who might want to discuss, you know, those pesky facts. Really, take a look around Idiotville and start counting the number of blogs who are gleefully publishing the most howling misrepresentations, while banning anyone who tries to get a word in edgewise.

It's nothing short of a meltdown. Just sit back and enjoy it.

BY THE WAY
, here's another bit of Twatsy-related entertainment to make your morning. Twatsy has been foaming about a libel suit against me given that I've accused him (and I have) of condoning the murder of abortion providers. I'll be totally up-front about this -- I've never believed that, and I only said it because it amused me and, additionally, I figured that if Twats can lie about me all the time, I could at least return the favour and yank his chain. But fun's fun, so let's correct this record.

I have, in fact, accused Patrick Ross, on a number of occasions, of promoting or condoning the murder of abortion providers. To the best of my knowledge, he believes no such thing. He is, of course, an infantile, petulant prat and pathological liar but, as far as I know, I've seen nothing to indicate that he believes abortion providers should be murdered, and I publicly, unabashedly and unreservedly retract any such suggestion or accusation. And this is where it gets entertaining.

Because, you see, that's the only grounds for a complaint against me that Twatsy had. That's it. Twatsy's been howling over that single accusation for quite some time now, threatening legal action, and with my unconditional retraction here for the world to see, I've just taken that card off the table.

I, on the other hand, still have handfuls of cards to play. You know, like the bogus accusation that Twatsy made as you can see above. And with my public retraction of that one claim, Twatsy is now totally unarmed, nads hanging out, where I or anyone else can take a whack at him.

And that, Twatsy, is what happens when you mess with the grown-ups. Enjoy twisting in the wind. It looks good on you.

AFTERSNARK: I've had more than one person encouraging me to launch a libel suit, pointing out how I have a wickedly strong case. And while that may be, I think it's more productive to simply let the screeching, foaming desperation and dishonesty run wild because, seriously, I can't imagine a more effective way of letting the entire Canadian Idiotsphere destroy its own credibility and implode and collapse under its own shrieking hatred.

I'll just go about my business, and people will send me e-mail pointing out the latest dishonest dumbassitude, and if I think it's worth my time, I'll correct the record here so people appreciate the dishonesty, then I'll get back to work. And the Idiotsphere will get increasingly frantic and desperate and deranged, until no one takes them seriously anymore. At which point, all those whackjobs will get internships at the Manning Centre.

OK, I just made up the last part. Maybe.

39 comments:

Ti-Guy said...

And once that's in hand, it should be a piece of cake to make sure all of those responsible individuals are educated as to Dick's disturbing predilection for online child rape and promotion of child sex.

Which I believe even predates your unpleasant encounter with him. My memory's getting hazy on this, but he called me a pedophile long before you. Over at Robert McLelland's blog. It's never been funny, I've asked him to apologise for that before, but he never has and has never stopped. It really is an obsession.

I just don't understand why these people haven't been institutionalised. Now that Patrick Ross in it, running around pasting in lies everywhere, it'll never stop.

Abuabasabat said...
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Ti-Guy said...

Oh God, that thing again. I thought it had died.

Fuck off.

Abuabasabat said...
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CC said...

Dear Abuabasabat:

The only cardinal sin here at CC HQ is to be boring. So either write something deep or witty, or bugger off.

Sparky said...

On a related note...
Patrick, after having his ass thoroughly handed to him when he tried to discuss evolution at PZ's place, is now posting in his little corner of the world why people shouldn't take PZ seriously...
Seriously.
And it's all 'cause cc and PZ know one another...
That's why we shouldn't take PZ seriously...
Seriously!
'Cause Patrick's a serious person.
SERIOUSLY!!

psa said...

i wonder if all that seriousness was exclusive?

Ti-Guy said...

Is that more interesting than Patrick Ross's 8-sided triangles? That was the last time I ever closely read anything he wrote. I really believed he was hallucinating.

Abuabasabat said...
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Mike said...

I see Patsy has been fishing for lots of folks with that libel threat...

Well he does run a place call the Nexus of Assholery, I'm sure its all grandstanding and posturing to get a rise out of people anyway.

Really, its funny to see him froth a 7 paragraph answer to a 5 word response...

You have it, the best response is to point out how much they lie. Some day, when the HR department Googles, karma will have its way with them.

Sparky said...

When I commented on his blatant falsehoods using supporting evidence and links that went on for a bunch of paragraphs, his sock puppet replied that there were too many words to read.
He himself didn't even bother to try and refute any of it, either, and just posted a quick sentence response.
However, he can go on about whatever pickle's up his butt on a particular day and fill volumes.

Abuabasabat said...
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Sparky said...

Trust me--don't care.
However, he should.
It shows to everyone that he's a hypocrite. If he wants to be taken seriously (and I'm told that he does), then he has to, well, not be.
It's like the padre preaching on the adultery thing whilst committing adultery.
I personally don't care if the padre's getting some on the side--it personally matters not to me at all. However, if every sunday he's preaching on the sin of adultery--there's the issue.
Patricks got to get it in his head that people don't care that he mischaracterized (or lied, or whatever).
This is the point where people care--When they point out that he's wrong and he doesn't correct his record--that's bad enuf.
Patrick has a particular idiom, though--he calls others to the carpet for what he perceived as their wrongness. He goes on at length shouting and ranting against whatever, yet there are his misdeeds--flapping in the breeze.
Moreover, he has this fantastic habit of basing his accusations on something, and beating everyone else over the head with it if they don't agree (triangles, deficits, whathaveyou), and when it turns out to be completely wrong...
Crickets...
Nothing to see here...
Move along...
Why are you guys still bringing that up????
Yeah, that's Patrick.

Abuabasabat said...
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Sparky said...

Wow--nice
Sockpuppets 'r' us...
This is why people don't want to engage you in any type of debate.

Abuabasabat said...
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Sparky said...

taking advice from others--
it's apparent that engaging in any type of reasonable debate is meaningless in Abu's world
/ignore Abuabasabat

Abuabasabat said...
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Sparky said...

Somehow I'm reminded (again) of this quotation from My Blahg--
The GOP has mastered an error condition in the political process, an infinite loop of abstraction that drains all meaning from political speech. They don't have to focus on meaning, really, at all, they just turn up the burbling nonsense until we all descend past the noise machine event horizon into infinitely unproductive debate, never to re-emerge. This is how we progressives (rationalists?) keep ending up on the sucker side of the media war with the right: we're still using the old paradigm of meaning and they're busily deploying the equivalent of malware and DOS attacks.--The Poor Man Institute
Come at someone with the intent of debating openly and honestly and what do you get?
Never let it be said of Sparky that sense cannot be beaten into him.

If you beat him hard enough

Never let it be said that Abu comes to a discussion with the intent of, well, having an honest discussion.
Sounds like a Patrick ploy if I ever saw one...

Ti-Guy said...

Just google "abuabasabat" and check out Thwap's Schoolyard and My Blahg. You'll get the picture.

Abuabasabat said...
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Abuabasabat said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Abuabasabat said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Abuabasabat said...
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Sparky said...

hate to hurt your feelings, but the hell you did...
I'll answer anyone that asks what i consider to be legitimate questions.
Answer them until they prove to be jackasses.
See, I read Ti's response earlier. However, since I, and others around here, don't do this whole 'groupthink' thing, I actually decided to attempt to open a dialogue--just in case you wanted to, y'know, dialogue.
As it is, you've shown again why it's pointless to engage people like you intellectually--you're not interested.
In other words, you handed yourself your own ass.
give people enuf rope...

Abuabasabat said...
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CC said...

Go away, Abu. You bore me.

Abuabasabat said...
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CC said...

Seriously, Abu, I'm asking you politely -- please go away. You're not bringing anything to the discussion, you're simply filling up the comments sections with vacuous crap, and I have no interest in that.

Really, I'm asking you politely, and I'd appreciate it if you showed the courtesy to accept that and do as I asked.

Cherniak_WTF said...

The problem with the wingnut bloggers is that they perfect their lies, and then graduate to (like you have pointed out) the Manning Center, and half a thousand other "think-tanks"... Tasha anyone....
Or, grow up and become the PM...

KEvron said...

"he called me a pedophile long before you."

didn't you accuse ironman whatzamacallit of being a paedo?

KEvron

Renee said...

"...until no one takes them seriously anymore."

People took them seriously?

Sandman said...

"...I at no point asked people to send me that information. And I wouldn't because, frankly, I don't care about it. To this day, I don't know what school those kids go to, and I have never asked anyone to tell me."

WTF do you call this, then?

"So let's get started. I'd appreciate it if amused readers that live in Calgary can start tracking down any of the information I'm looking for above, and e-mail it to me. Do not post it in the comments section -- if you do, I'll delete it. E-mail only: Dick's kid's school(s), relevant contact people at those schools, school board members, trustees ... you get the idea. But make sure you understand the most important rule in all of this.

Every bit of this information must have been publicly available. It is absolutely unacceptable to do any hacking or illegal behaviour to learn any of this. Public records only, after which I will do my best to introduce Dick Evans to his local school officials. And his neighbours. And their kids."

From the original post, titled NAMBLA-Dick, and the CC reader challenge.

CC said...

You're right, Sandman, I obviously wrote that. And I'd forgotten about it. Because nothing ever came of it, and I dropped it. But that doesn't excuse the fact that I clearly wrote that. My apologies. I stand corrected.

For the record, though, I still have no idea where they went to school. And I have no interest in anyone telling me that.

CC said...

Oh, crap. Sandman, you total douchebag. Thanks for leaving out the context. If readers want to follow the link to that post, they will notice that Sandman carefully excised the following, which clearly explains why I was asking where the kids went to school:

"... it shouldn't be hard to figure out where his children go to school (again, most likely public information based on residence). And from that, it should be relatively easy to get a list of relevant local teachers and school board members (again, openly public information). And once that's in hand, it should be a piece of cake to make sure all of those responsible individuals are educated as to Dick's disturbing predilection for online child rape and promotion of child sex."

Did you catch that, Sandman, you cretin? I wanted that info for nothing more than a way to get ahold of the proper authority figures (teachers, school board members, etc.), in case I felt like warning them about the disturbed NAMBLA devotee that walked among them.

And, trust me, I have absolutely no shame in admitting that I was prepared to do that. If NAMBLA Dick was so proud of redirecting unsuspecting readers to a child-rape site, he shouldn't be embarrassed to take full credit for it.

That's why I wanted that information, you dishonest goober -- to hold NAMBLA Dick accountable for his actions. I thought you yobs were real big on personal responsibility and accountability, so why shouldn't Dick be held to the same standard?

Dick is the one who promoted child rape by redirecting people to NAMBLA's home page. So why the fuck do you have a beef with me? Aren't you cons all about protecting the children? Defending NAMBLA Dick is a strange way of showing it.

Now fuck off.

Sandman said...

Let's get this out of the way first: I'm not conservative, or even Canadian. I came here from the link in Pharyngula, hoping to read some entertaining whoop-ass served to the neo-con crowd, so I'm on your side here! =)

That said, I commented when, in a post ripping into Patrick Ross "lying about everything, all of the time", you flatly denied asking people to obtain the name of the school/schools AND send them to you, when in fact you had done so. I fully understand that you didn't intend to publish this info and only wanted it so you could contact the teachers, etc, but that's beside my point. Ross said you'd done this, you said you hadn't, I went and read the original post where you did.

Now, I'd tell you to fuck off, but seeing as it's your site, I'll just kindly suggest you check your previous posts more thoroughly before making bold categorical statements like the one discussed. =)

CC said...

Fair enough, Sandman, your points are well taken, but the reason I'm annoyed is that Patrick "Twatsy" Ross has explicitly accused me of "stalking" Dick Evans' kids "to their school," the clear and sinister implication being that I'm trying to get their personal info to somehow do them harm.

As you can see, that's rubbish. I publicly suggested that it should be trivially easy, using public records, to figure out what school they went to if one wanted to warn the appropriate people about a local parent with a creepy NAMBLA fixation.

And to make it clear one more time, I still -- to this day -- don't know what school they attend. But I have not the slightest shame in suggesting that those local parents have every right to know the evil that walks among them and what he's done.

Have we cleared this up at least a little?

Sandman said...

Crystal clear, mate. =)

CC said...

I'm going to assume that's sarcasm, and move on.