Well, as the aging former nazis I talked to in Germany explained, the intention of Deutschland über Alles was really innocent and benign...it meant that the German's core concern should be Germany, above everything else. In the World.
There's no real distinction in German between "over" and "above;" both are rendered by über. You use cases to describe change of location versus remaining in place.
I think that ambiguity is what keeps people talking about what über Alles means, but it really does translate to "above all" or "before everything else." Of course, it can actually mean "Germany should rule the World," but the words pre-date The Third Reich by a hundred years or so.
I think "before all" is probably the best translation of the expression. It was originally an appeal to Germanic people to unite and put their common interests above those of the petty kingdoms and principalities (Prussia, Westphalia, Bavaria, Saxony, etc.) that made up what we now recognize as Germany.
Still... all considered, what a clueless expression.
"Still... all considered, what a clueless expression."
the marketing genius who came up with that one was probably too pleased with his clever pun ("air force, 'over all'?! get it?!") to realize the implications. madison ave is a shallow pond.
Freedonia had the best national anthem (it's Marxist), although I do like Sweethaven's.
Yeah, sure uber alles pre-dates the Nazis, but so does the swastika, and they kind of f'ed that one up for everyone else. Especially that hockey team in Windsor, NS. And I'm positive arbeit macht frei pre-dates the Nazis, but putting it up at the entrance to Auschwitz taints it just smidgen for any future use, no?
RT if you wanted to be correct, you would have googled, and discovered that the current motto of the Canadian Air Force is "Sic Itur Ad Astra" which translates into "such is the pathway to the stars".
Security Above All is actually the title of an article pertaining to Air Force, the first paragraph of which states:
"Transforming Canada's Air Force is about building the right Air Force for the Canada of the future and the world of tomorrow. It is about an Air Force that effectively contributes to the security of Canada and its people, and one of which Canadians can be proud."
Jeff — I thought it was obvious from the link provided that it pertained to their “transformation” efforts, but thanks for the additional clarification.
to be fair, rt, i read it more as a core value than a motto. but the line between the two is so thin that only a pedantic, disruptive twat would bother to split the hairs.
1. a maxim adopted as an expression of the guiding principle of a person, organization, city, etc. 2. a sentence, phrase, or word expressing the spirit or purpose of a person, organization, city, etc.,
The title of the paper is the motto of the CAF's "transformation" initiative. I thought that was pretty clear from the original comment made and link provided. Jeff's clarification, and more especially his subsequent follow-up, as you noted, seems like a pedantic bit of hair-splitting to me. Whatever floats his boat, I guess.
When you start blustering about your alleged superiority, it seems fair to criticize your egregious spelling mistakes. Pedantic? Yes. Annoying? Perhaps. So is poor spelling.
ti-guy, I know keeping up is not your strong suit... So let me give you a play by play. I am playing nice now. I was not playing nice in a previous thread, because I am a soldier. I have buried friends from the mission in Afghanistan, and thus I took very deep offense to the flippant, and continued abuse of one of our own.
Further, make no mistake, we in the CF view all members, AND their respective families as our families.
Go ahead and question the mission. It is our god given right here in Canada. But attacking a grieving mother is far far beyond pale. And now it has happened again here (that is as much as I will get into it, without exploding into more profanities).
I created my blog identity in response to that vile post concerning Wanda. On a night where I was snowed in, I spent too much time thinking about that garbage… Clearly I was not the only one, eh ti-guy?
Franz Josef Haydn wrote the melody as an anthem for the birthday of the Austrian Emperor Francis II of the Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation, Gott erhalte Franz den Kaiser. It's also found in String Quartet No. 62 in C major, Op. 76, No. 3
The 2nd verse of the German anthem is the best though:
Deutsche Frauen, deutsche Treue, deutscher Wein und deutscher Sang sollen in der Welt behalten ihren alten schönen Klang, uns zu edler Tat begeistern unser ganzes Leben lang. Deutsche Frauen, deutsche Treue, Deutscher Wein und deutscher Sang!
or...
German women, German loyalty, German wine and German song Shall retain in the world Their old beautiful ring And inspire us to noble deeds During all of our life. German women, German loyalty, German wine and German song!
It almost has a frat house drunken party song feel to it.
Um ... guys? If you want another political "oops" moment, consider the lack of historical acumen that allowed these twits to label themselves Gathering of Eagles.
Bonus points to the first person who twigs on the unintentional hilarity here.
Go ahead and question the mission. It is our god given right here in Canada.
Especially since the rest of us are paying for it.
Active members of the CF should be cut off from the Internet altogether. Frankly, I'm a little concerned about all the anger-management issues I'm seeing.
Active members of the CF should be cut off from the Internet altogether. Perhaps, but that is irrelevant here.
Remember the guy called "kingston"? He is credible as actually being CF. Mainly because when he mentions it, it comes up as incidental to something else. He's never said anything to the effect of "I am CF so my point of view is more important than yours".
Frankly, I'm a little concerned about all the anger-management issues I'm seeing. I've always found real military people to be the last ones to have anger problems. It's all the posers who like to feel powerful and act tough, and then find nobody is respecting their authoritay, who have the insane anger problems.
LS, I don't believe anyone is who they claim to be. But I do give the self-proclaimed soldiers benefit of the doubt in order for them to possibly understand that they're embarrassing the very people they claim to be or support.
I've never met a Canadian soldier is never been anything but a consummate professional. Although, this younger generation gives me pause...Remember, a lot of young people are signicantly deranged these days...
Oh wow... Bunch of idiots again. Ahh well, that's all right... But nice to see the usual lines of arguments popping up now.
You know, like making stuff up that I never said.
As to embarrassing your side. Well, hey... I have morals, and I tend to get angry when someone is kicking someone else when they are down, which is exactly what your amoral buddy CC did. He is vile and contemptuous, guess where you fit in backing his play?
Go ahead, and get pissy. I'm out till you idiots make another idiotic mistake (which I am guessing will only be another couple of hours). Of course, letting the dead be, and the grieving alone, would make me go away... But such a moral thing is lost on the amoral, eh?
Well, as the aging former nazis I talked to in Germany explained, the intention of Deutschland über Alles was really innocent and benign...it meant that the German's core concern should be Germany, above everything else. In the World.
ReplyDeleteI'm sure it's the same thing here.
On a related note...
WHAT THE FUCK ARE THEY THINKING?!!
Wouldn't über translate more appropriately to over, not above? My high school german was long ago though.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, still very amusing.
There's no real distinction in German between "over" and "above;" both are rendered by über. You use cases to describe change of location versus remaining in place.
ReplyDeleteI think that ambiguity is what keeps people talking about what über Alles means, but it really does translate to "above all" or "before everything else." Of course, it can actually mean "Germany should rule the World," but the words pre-date The Third Reich by a hundred years or so.
1797. This song was written long before the National Socialist Party ever rose to power.
ReplyDeleteDuring those times, much of the original verse was actually dumped in favour of more militaristic verse, and racial chest thumping.
The original über alles had nothing at all to do with world conquest.
check me if i'm wrong, but i beloieve "das deutschland über alles" is still germany's nat anthem.
ReplyDeletei need to break out my old dk's records....
KEvron
Well, the melody is by Schubert, I think. Isn't it one of the middle bits of the Trout Quintet?
ReplyDeleteto be honest, i like the german anthem. france has the best, though.
ReplyDeleteours sucks eggs.
KEvron
"America has My Country 'Tis of Thee, which they sing to the tune of God Save the Queen" - Flanders & Swann
ReplyDeleteI think "before all" is probably the best translation of the expression. It was originally an appeal to Germanic people to unite and put their common interests above those of the petty kingdoms and principalities (Prussia, Westphalia, Bavaria, Saxony, etc.) that made up what we now recognize as Germany.
ReplyDeleteStill... all considered, what a clueless expression.
no, wait! sweethaven has the best!
ReplyDeleteKEvron
"America has My Country 'Tis of Thee"
ReplyDeleteblecch! "america the beautiful".... now that's an anthem.
KEvron
"Still... all considered, what a clueless expression."
ReplyDeletethe marketing genius who came up with that one was probably too pleased with his clever pun ("air force, 'over all'?! get it?!") to realize the implications. madison ave is a shallow pond.
KEvron
I don't think they're clueless. I think they are nazis.
ReplyDelete""america the beautiful".... now that's an anthem."
ReplyDeleteWhen done by Kate Smith. Before a Flyers' game. Otherwise its just more jingoistic crap.
Now, "My Paddle's Clean And Bright", that is a song you can get behind.
"When done by Kate Smith"
ReplyDeleteyou may be thinking of that other piece of hackery, "god bless america".
think "ray charles"....
KEvron
Freedonia had the best national anthem (it's Marxist), although I do like Sweethaven's.
ReplyDeleteYeah, sure uber alles pre-dates the Nazis, but so does the swastika, and they kind of f'ed that one up for everyone else. Especially that hockey team in Windsor, NS. And I'm positive arbeit macht frei pre-dates the Nazis, but putting it up at the entrance to Auschwitz taints it just smidgen for any future use, no?
There's a town in Ontario that didn't let that stop them.
ReplyDeleteBy the way, the current motto of the "transforming" Canadian Air Force...? "Security Above All"
ReplyDeleteHa ha..
ReplyDeleteHey Kevron. Remind me to tell you guys the one when Jello Biafra stuck my shoes down his pants and I had to walk home in the snow barefoot.
"you may be thinking of that other piece of hackery, "god bless america"."
ReplyDeleteActually, I was trying to improve "God Bless America", but I was too vague.
the transformers changed their motto from "the challenge is in the change!" to "more than meets the eye!"....
ReplyDeleteKEvron
RT if you wanted to be correct, you would have googled, and discovered that the current motto of the Canadian Air Force is "Sic Itur Ad Astra" which translates into "such is the pathway to the stars".
ReplyDeleteSecurity Above All is actually the title of an article pertaining to Air Force, the first paragraph of which states:
"Transforming Canada's Air Force is about building the right Air Force for the Canada of the future and the world of tomorrow. It is about an Air Force that effectively contributes to the security of Canada and its people, and one of which Canadians can be proud."
Jeff — I thought it was obvious from the link provided that it pertained to their “transformation” efforts, but thanks for the additional clarification.
ReplyDeleteThere is a difference between a motto, and a title. One would hope that an educated person would know that difference.
ReplyDeleteSo to correct your line... "By the way, the current title of the "transforming" Canadian Air Force...? is "Security Above All" "
"the current title of the "transforming" Canadian Air Force...?"
ReplyDelete"title"?! that makes perfect nonsense, awphul smale.
KEvron
"but thanks for the additional clarification."
ReplyDeleteto be fair, rt, i read it more as a core value than a motto. but the line between the two is so thin that only a pedantic, disruptive twat would bother to split the hairs.
(cue awphul smale)
KEVron
KEv — Definition of "motto":
ReplyDelete1. a maxim adopted as an expression of the guiding principle of a person, organization, city, etc.
2. a sentence, phrase, or word expressing the spirit or purpose of a person, organization, city, etc.,
The title of the paper is the motto of the CAF's "transformation" initiative. I thought that was pretty clear from the original comment made and link provided. Jeff's clarification, and more especially his subsequent follow-up, as you noted, seems like a pedantic bit of hair-splitting to me. Whatever floats his boat, I guess.
It's called turn around. It is no more pedantic then spelling corrections, and no doubt highly annoying...
ReplyDeleteMind you, that little difference is kind of large-ish. Title and motto are different enough to warrant different useage.
When you start blustering about your alleged superiority, it seems fair to criticize your egregious spelling mistakes. Pedantic? Yes. Annoying? Perhaps. So is poor spelling.
ReplyDeleteIt's called righteous anger over an issue which impacts me directly.
ReplyDeletewhich impacts me directly.
ReplyDeleteWhat is Alpha She-Male on about? This topic isn't about persecuting hermaphrodites.
AM — Fair enough. Let's just leave it at that.
ReplyDeleteti-guy, I know keeping up is not your strong suit... So let me give you a play by play. I am playing nice now. I was not playing nice in a previous thread, because I am a soldier. I have buried friends from the mission in Afghanistan, and thus I took very deep offense to the flippant, and continued abuse of one of our own.
ReplyDeleteFurther, make no mistake, we in the CF view all members, AND their respective families as our families.
Go ahead and question the mission. It is our god given right here in Canada. But attacking a grieving mother is far far beyond pale. And now it has happened again here (that is as much as I will get into it, without exploding into more profanities).
I created my blog identity in response to that vile post concerning Wanda. On a night where I was snowed in, I spent too much time thinking about that garbage… Clearly I was not the only one, eh ti-guy?
Balbulican said...
ReplyDeleteWell, the melody is by Schubert, I think.
Franz Josef Haydn wrote the melody as an anthem for the birthday of the Austrian Emperor Francis II of the Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation, Gott erhalte Franz den Kaiser. It's also found in String Quartet No. 62 in C major, Op. 76, No. 3
The 2nd verse of the German anthem is the best though:
Deutsche Frauen, deutsche Treue,
deutscher Wein und deutscher Sang
sollen in der Welt behalten
ihren alten schönen Klang,
uns zu edler Tat begeistern
unser ganzes Leben lang.
Deutsche Frauen, deutsche Treue,
Deutscher Wein und deutscher Sang!
or...
German women, German loyalty,
German wine and German song
Shall retain in the world
Their old beautiful ring
And inspire us to noble deeds
During all of our life.
German women, German loyalty,
German wine and German song!
It almost has a frat house drunken party song feel to it.
Um ... guys? If you want another political "oops" moment, consider the lack of historical acumen that allowed these twits to label themselves Gathering of Eagles.
ReplyDeleteBonus points to the first person who twigs on the unintentional hilarity here.
CC — Yeah, yeah... That's a good one alright. Probably wrong to draw too many inferences from this sort of stuff, all though it's sorely tempting.
ReplyDeleteGo ahead and question the mission. It is our god given right here in Canada.
ReplyDeleteEspecially since the rest of us are paying for it.
Active members of the CF should be cut off from the Internet altogether. Frankly, I'm a little concerned about all the anger-management issues I'm seeing.
Active members of the CF should be cut off from the Internet altogether.
ReplyDeletePerhaps, but that is irrelevant here.
Remember the guy called "kingston"? He is credible as actually being CF. Mainly because when he mentions it, it comes up as incidental to something else. He's never said anything to the effect of "I am CF so my point of view is more important than yours".
Frankly, I'm a little concerned about all the anger-management issues I'm seeing.
I've always found real military people to be the last ones to have anger problems. It's all the posers who like to feel powerful and act tough, and then find nobody is respecting their authoritay, who have the insane anger problems.
LS, I don't believe anyone is who they claim to be. But I do give the self-proclaimed soldiers benefit of the doubt in order for them to possibly understand that they're embarrassing the very people they claim to be or support.
ReplyDeleteI've never met a Canadian soldier is never been anything but a consummate professional. Although, this younger generation gives me pause...Remember, a lot of young people are signicantly deranged these days...
"is never been" s.b. "who's never been..."
ReplyDeleteOh wow... Bunch of idiots again. Ahh well, that's all right... But nice to see the usual lines of arguments popping up now.
ReplyDeleteYou know, like making stuff up that I never said.
As to embarrassing your side. Well, hey... I have morals, and I tend to get angry when someone is kicking someone else when they are down, which is exactly what your amoral buddy CC did. He is vile and contemptuous, guess where you fit in backing his play?
Go ahead, and get pissy. I'm out till you idiots make another idiotic mistake (which I am guessing will only be another couple of hours). Of course, letting the dead be, and the grieving alone, would make me go away... But such a moral thing is lost on the amoral, eh?
But nice to see the usual lines of arguments popping up now.
ReplyDeleteYou know, like making stuff up that I never said.
And the usual faux umbrage from biff, hilariously assuming we were even talking about him in the first place.
Guess what? It's not all about you.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI deleted my own comment above, and apologize. It was a personal attack on liberal supporter.
ReplyDeleteRead the quote to which I responded LS... You will find that you were talking about me.