tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6708375.post6489309830623107419..comments2024-03-28T03:54:21.932-04:00Comments on Canadian Cynic: Living in a perfect world, torture-wise.CChttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11406057201126015750noreply@blogger.comBlogger29125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6708375.post-8489177570001230172009-04-30T12:10:00.000-04:002009-04-30T12:10:00.000-04:00Well, I do like the first presumption there. That...Well, I do like the first presumption there. That the *cops* are going to torture the 'suspect' in custody, ladeedah. And that it's a public enough sporting event that the *parent* will be aware of it and/or have any say in the process as to inciting or stopping.<br /><br />Here I thought NorAm law enforcement had advanced to the point they simply farmed out torture to prison inmate committees, especially in cases of child rapists. The old 'co-operate with us or we'll put you in gen-pop' promise.<br /><br />24 aside, it's no wonder torture is considered a game winner when such ingrained acceptance of prison-based torture is an unofficial staple of legal punishment.<br /><br />vw: tontersNileshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04096047389811381098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6708375.post-73216529479073152572009-04-30T10:50:00.000-04:002009-04-30T10:50:00.000-04:00"you mercurial crank"
Hey, that's what my parents..."you mercurial crank"<br /><br />Hey, that's what my parents used to call me.Ti-Guyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06620550471437012866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6708375.post-33952885275437513662009-04-30T09:40:00.000-04:002009-04-30T09:40:00.000-04:00Even if Papa Junker's nonsense could even be remot...Even if Papa Junker's nonsense could even be remotely true, under torture people will confess to anything and sometimes everything.<br /><br />Whether the person actually has the information or not, torture doesn't work because you can't tell whjat is true and what isn't.<br /><br />What if the guys tells you about a farm house outside of town? And after a SWAT raid, it turns out not to be the case - its an abandoned farm or the home of a cop he doesn't like? <br /><br />Worse, what if he give up everything completely honestly - fopr a few hundred years information extracted under torture is inadmissible as evidence. Everyone walks as a result.<br /><br />Well done Paul, well done.<br /><br />Instead of being worried about a hypothetical daughter in a hypothetical situation that would never occur, he should be worried about his actual son lest he be captured by the Taliban. Paul might not be such a fan of "enhanced interrogation" then...<br /><br />Sauce for the goose and all that Paullie.Mikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06941875334878452635noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6708375.post-56188811665830688522009-04-29T23:39:00.000-04:002009-04-29T23:39:00.000-04:00"they're all psychos, every last one of them"
i t...<I>"they're all psychos, every last one of them</I>"<br /><br />i thought you were off on-line analyses, you mercurial crank.<br /><br />KEvron<br /><br />wv = "bringen"KEvronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16732621823124759996noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6708375.post-23614294874413777452009-04-29T23:16:00.000-04:002009-04-29T23:16:00.000-04:00Lol....LOL!
Memo to the rest of the World: Don't...Lol....LOL!<br /><br />Memo to the rest of the World: Don't fuck with Americans; they're all psychos, every last one of them.Ti-Guyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06620550471437012866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6708375.post-9317996076258636002009-04-29T22:09:00.000-04:002009-04-29T22:09:00.000-04:00"Black people invented those things."lol! nice ont...<I>"Black people invented those things."</I>lol! nice ontology!<br /><br />KEvronKEvronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16732621823124759996noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6708375.post-19166641239442272232009-04-29T21:07:00.000-04:002009-04-29T21:07:00.000-04:00yes, america invented busting chops. right after j...<I>yes, america invented busting chops. right after jazz, but before rock and roll</I>.<br /><br />Black people invented those things. The only art-form indigenous to White America is animation.<br /><br />...cartoons, in other words.<br /><br />*snort*Ti-Guyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06620550471437012866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6708375.post-89055144099143466942009-04-29T21:00:00.000-04:002009-04-29T21:00:00.000-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Ti-Guyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06620550471437012866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6708375.post-32647199157441328572009-04-29T20:49:00.000-04:002009-04-29T20:49:00.000-04:00Events of the past fortnight have raised the issue...Events of the past fortnight have raised the issue of how senior American civil servants, leaders of Congress and administration officials could have approved use of the same specific kinds of torture Americans had condemned when Chinese Communists used these methods upon captured American pilots during the Korean Conflict to obtain false confessions to war crimes. I believe this question can be answered without questioning the morals or ethics of the decision-makers because I believe the procedure used to make the determination is inherently unreliable.<br /><br />British lawyers like to tell each other that the history of liberty is the history of the transition from status to contract, following Maitland; American lawyers like to tell each other the history of liberty is the history of the development of reasonably reliable procedures to make well-informed decisions, following Frankfurter. In the case of the torture decision-making, the administration established a procedure in which only a limited number of “principals” were involved, only a limited number of civil servants were involved, and prohibited each participant from discussing the issue with anyone outside the room, under penalty of law. It appears we could count the members of the entire decision-making body, up to and including the vice-president and possibly the president, on our fingers, without resort to our toes. It seems that the Secretary of Defense was excluded from the process for fear that he might send a deputy to an important meeting who might, in turn, notify military lawyers of the contemplated action. By the time the vice-president sought approval, it seems clear, he knew military lawyers uniformly opposed the program.<br /><br />Common law lawyers believe the most reliable procedure for determining contested facts retrospectively is the adversarial trial. Civil law lawyers prefer a procedure modeled upon the Inquisition. Save that issue for later.<br /><br />The US Congress has led the way in developing a procedure for well-informed decision making for prospective action that is so simple it is often overlooked. In the administrative sphere, in the rule-making process, it is called the “notice and comment” hearing. Decision-makers replicate Congressional procedure by publishing notice that they intend to adopt a certain regulation in a certain form, as if it were a bill introduced in Congress, and that they will accept comments on the proposal from the pubic until a certain date. As in Congress, they often set forth a date for oral testimony but, again as in Congress, the oral hearing is essentially ceremonial. The meat of the process is the submission and review of written presentations by interested parties. This process almost always flushes out foolish mistakes.<br /><br />As an aside, a truncated form of notice & comment hearing is employed to protect the president from making foolish mistakes ion major speeches. Copies of the proposed speech are “staffed” to senior civil servants and political officials in affected departments. Hence, the pushback against Bush claims that Iraq had attempted to obtain yellow-cake from Niger.<br /><br />If even a truncated notice & comment procedure had been permitted in the torture decision-making process, I believe that someone would have come forward with the history of SERE (Search, Evasion & Rescue) training, why the program had been instituted and what made use of these methods unreliable as a source of intelligence, contrary to the Geneva Convention and US law, foolish, and a repudiation of US military tradition and policy dating back to the War of 1812. <br /><br />The procedure employed to make the torture decision deliberately were designed to impede reliable decision-making.The Seerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09115651806512267553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6708375.post-10795625220300511622009-04-29T20:29:00.000-04:002009-04-29T20:29:00.000-04:00"another case in point"
yes, america invented bus...<I>"another case in point</I>"<br /><br />yes, america invented busting chops. right after jazz, but before rock and roll.<br /><br />KEvron<br /><br />wv = "wenting".KEvronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16732621823124759996noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6708375.post-40176668641034825802009-04-29T20:26:00.000-04:002009-04-29T20:26:00.000-04:00er, "lets"....
KEvroner, "lets"....<br /><br />KEvronKEvronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16732621823124759996noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6708375.post-90874509055328843512009-04-29T20:25:00.000-04:002009-04-29T20:25:00.000-04:00"obsessive"?! it's not like i visit them regularly..."obsessive"?! it's not like i visit them regularly. <br /><br />i'm occasionally tenacious.<br /><br /><I>"But you do have bigger fish to fry.</I>"<br /><br />says the guy without a blog. <br /><br />no, i don't have any fish to fry. cracking wise is just a hobby. let's me harmlessly blow off steam.<br /><br />KEvronKEvronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16732621823124759996noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6708375.post-5544262057990376222009-04-29T20:12:00.000-04:002009-04-29T20:12:00.000-04:00"object to the use of "relentless."
Sorry; I shou..."object to the use of "relentless."<br /><br />Sorry; I should have written <I>obsessive.</I>Don't get me wrong; it's hilarious. But you do have bigger fish to fry.Ti-Guyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06620550471437012866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6708375.post-74371657210829141782009-04-29T20:10:00.000-04:002009-04-29T20:10:00.000-04:00CC,
I'd like to know what would happen if, you kn...CC,<br /><br />I'd like to know what would happen if, you know, the police used an "enhanced" method of interrogation - for example, a taser - and the known abductor died. Or what if he had a heart attack while being "specially" interrogated. Or what happened if the "known abductor", while being interrogated with "enhanced techniques" gave the wrong info. <br /><br />Basically, what would happen if the only guy who's got the info died while being interrogated with "enhanced techniques".Sunitahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13079712490958220626noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6708375.post-15789031526103042512009-04-29T19:46:00.000-04:002009-04-29T19:46:00.000-04:00"the good thing about Americans being cool with to...<I>"the good thing about Americans being cool with torture is that they can no longer even pretend to have any moral authority.</I>"<br /><br />we've ceded that authority to canadians who are cool with torture.<br /><br />KEvron, who knows his daughter is being held by rapistsKEvronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16732621823124759996noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6708375.post-22061064984283114792009-04-29T19:36:00.000-04:002009-04-29T19:36:00.000-04:00"and KEvron's relentless torture of silly little b...<I>"and KEvron's relentless torture of silly little bloggers is another case in point</I>"<br /><br />i object to the use of "relentless".<br /><br />KEvronKEvronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16732621823124759996noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6708375.post-50026695938985964032009-04-29T19:27:00.000-04:002009-04-29T19:27:00.000-04:00is that they can no longer even pretend to have an...<I>is that they can no longer even pretend to have any moral authority</I>.<br /><br />Oh, "YES WE CAN!"Ti-Guyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06620550471437012866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6708375.post-28786672590977539442009-04-29T19:25:00.000-04:002009-04-29T19:25:00.000-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Ti-Guyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06620550471437012866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6708375.post-23871507184285275242009-04-29T19:11:00.000-04:002009-04-29T19:11:00.000-04:00Good one, psa.
But the good thing about Americans...Good one, psa.<br /><br />But the good thing about Americans being cool with torture is that they can no longer even pretend to have any moral authority.sooeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07259420303500863081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6708375.post-60464021727394103662009-04-29T18:50:00.000-04:002009-04-29T18:50:00.000-04:00But most of the time, it's just sadismSomething th...<I>But most of the time, it's just sadism</I>Something the Americans revel in. Remember all the grinning in the Abu Ghraib photos?<br /><br />...and KEvron's relentless torture of silly little bloggers is another case in point...Ti-Guyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06620550471437012866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6708375.post-43657900747534491222009-04-29T18:24:00.000-04:002009-04-29T18:24:00.000-04:00- you know it's your daughter.
jer-RY! jer-RY jer...- you <I>know</I> it's your daughter.<br /><br />jer-RY! jer-RY jer-RY!<br /><br />KEvronKEvronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16732621823124759996noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6708375.post-39088530542508523042009-04-29T18:23:00.000-04:002009-04-29T18:23:00.000-04:00cjunk is just trying to create masturbation fantas...cjunk is just trying to create masturbation fantasy scenarios for writing more true crime dime novels. He's excited, imagining having an excuse to waterboard some victim 266 times a month.<br /><br />The best torture victims are the ones who actually don't know the information you are seeking. Then you can gleefully torture them as long as you want. Just need to keep the doctor on hand so they don't actually die, otherwise you then need to find another victim.<br /><br />As ti-guy points out, the best check on torture is to keep it illegal. The guy that stopped the thermonuclear detonation will be readily excused if he had to cut off someone's hands a knuckle at a time to do it. But most of the time, it's just sadism and they should throw the book at the unsuccessful torturer.<br /><br />Is cjunk willing to have the torturers face the same tortures themselves if they do NOT save the little girl?liberal supporterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01129945625510633921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6708375.post-38613585000538262642009-04-29T17:10:00.000-04:002009-04-29T17:10:00.000-04:00Sorry, Artful. I should explain what I learned lo...Sorry, Artful. I should explain what I learned long ago about such improbable scenarios, namely: no jury on Earth would convict anyone of doing what they had to do in unbelievably singular circumstances. But to create a body of jurisprudence based on fantasies is madness.Ti-Guyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06620550471437012866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6708375.post-61839768385706378062009-04-29T17:03:00.000-04:002009-04-29T17:03:00.000-04:00Playing devil's advocate here...Why does that expr...<I>Playing devil's advocate here...</I>Why does that expression send me running for the <I>Advil Extra-Strength</I> lately?Ti-Guyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06620550471437012866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6708375.post-7821737675351806062009-04-29T16:43:00.000-04:002009-04-29T16:43:00.000-04:00One other thing that's known with absolute certain...One other thing that's known with absolute certainty in these scenarios is that you'll know whether the tortured person is telling the truth or not.<br /><br />Unfortunately, here in the real world, we only know that information obtained through torture is absolutely unreliable.<br /><br />These torture apologists never see that they're being played for complete fucking idiots. The only reason a government tortures someone is to get the answers they want in order to justify doing whatever the fuck they want.<br /><br />Dance, puppets, dance. You're not much good for anything else.M@https://www.blogger.com/profile/13408488215496128814noreply@blogger.com