tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6708375.post3034039714144463574..comments2024-03-28T03:54:21.932-04:00Comments on Canadian Cynic: No, not that outrage ... the OTHER outrage!CChttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11406057201126015750noreply@blogger.comBlogger73125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6708375.post-20324859351541257272008-08-02T12:26:00.000-04:002008-08-02T12:26:00.000-04:00back to the the crux of the p[ost:SHE hysterically...back to the the crux of the p[ost:<BR/><BR/>SHE hysterically asks "what in the name of jesus christ is our country coming to???" (we'll just ignore HER blasphemy and HER hyperbolic punctuation), yet stockwell day rightly notes that it's a one-of.<BR/><BR/>KEvronKEvronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16732621823124759996noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6708375.post-33948560353693214762008-08-02T10:41:00.000-04:002008-08-02T10:41:00.000-04:00jj, true, what you wrote was ambiguous, while Day ...jj, true, what you wrote was ambiguous, while Day clearly wanted to encourage prisoners to murder a man. I apologize for giving your suggestion the worst interpretation. I scorned Day when he made that suggestion, so I couldn't just let what I thought was a similar idea go.Holly Stickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01137842937086115228noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6708375.post-46200864953933325312008-08-02T10:01:00.000-04:002008-08-02T10:01:00.000-04:00"This is what I am beginning to think too.""beginn...<I>"This is what I am beginning to think too."</I><BR/><BR/>"beginning"?!<BR/><BR/>KEvronKEvronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16732621823124759996noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6708375.post-18017681793771513022008-08-02T09:46:00.000-04:002008-08-02T09:46:00.000-04:00Blogger Ti-Guy said... This man sounds serious...<I>Blogger Ti-Guy said...<BR/><BR/> This man sounds seriously ill. I couldn't possibly see his execution as moral.<BR/><BR/> 9:32 PM</I><BR/><BR/>This is what I am beginning to think too.toujoursdanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08106158181662408311noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6708375.post-70910673144436828852008-08-02T09:08:00.000-04:002008-08-02T09:08:00.000-04:00I'm sorry now I'm so late to this thread, but I fe...I'm sorry now I'm so late to this thread, but I feel I missed something. Are we somehow so satisfied of this man's evil that we would like to put him to death, but failing that are otherwise willing to offer him a "work release" program for prison? What the hell kind of false dichotomy is that?<BR/><BR/>And just how many prison escapes happen in the US these days, anyway? It seems pretty damn rare in Canada...Adam Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09643814038940593559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6708375.post-63966864708571336112008-08-02T01:04:00.000-04:002008-08-02T01:04:00.000-04:00E in MD, you talk about the possibility of this ma...E in MD, you talk about the possibility of this man escaping and killing again, the argument of which can be summed up as "if it saves just one person, then it will be worthwhile."<BR/><BR/>I don't know how you feel about CC, but he had a very good example which blew a hole in that argument for me. He said, he could eliminate virtually all deaths by traffic accident overnight. His solution? Vigorously enforce a speed limit of 20 km/hr. Yes, that would be a severe restriction on all our lives, but thousands die in traffic accidents throughout the year. If it saves one life, it will be worthwhile.<BR/><BR/>Yes, this is an extreme example, but there are plenty of people confined to maximum security institutions for non capital crimes. They're kept there for a reason, and by your logic, they are all a risk for escape and re-offence. Do we need a death penalty for serial rapists? Perhaps. I could see a good argument that to have convicted pedophiles treated the same as first degree murderers, and if first degree murder is a capital crime once again, so be it. Let it be done for pedophiles as well.<BR/><BR/>But like JJ, I do not believe that the state should have any right to decide who lives or who dies, no matter how heinous the crime. I believe this because of the number of people who have been convicted of capital crime and have had all appeals exhausted, only to be exhonerated. David Milgaar, Guy Paul Morin, Donald Marshall, Laurencia Bambenik, the list goes on. I am not willing to have their blood on my hands just so I can sanction the killing of an individual who so thoroughly deserves to be killed.<BR/><BR/>Despite the small risk of escape, society is protected if this sick individual is put away for the rest of his life. Justice demands no more. Beyond that, in my opinion, is vengeance. And, yes, I believe that thoughts in that area put us on a track that, in extreme cases, leads to what the poor witnesses on the bus saw.<BR/><BR/>And, here, I speak from personal experience. I've wanted vengeance before, and looking back on the person I was in those dark moments, I did not like the person I had become.James Bowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11888307747088266395noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6708375.post-63663587724146139982008-08-01T23:32:00.000-04:002008-08-01T23:32:00.000-04:00"This man sounds seriously ill. I couldn't possibl...<I>"This man sounds seriously ill. I couldn't possibly see his execution as moral."</I><BR/><BR/>wouldn't stop some crawford chimps i know....<BR/><BR/>KEvronKEvronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16732621823124759996noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6708375.post-47099063802074853752008-08-01T23:26:00.000-04:002008-08-01T23:26:00.000-04:00btw, e:between the fear factor and the permanent d...btw, e:<BR/><BR/>between the fear factor and the permanent deterrent factor and the punishment fit the crime factor, you might as well add <A HREF="http://www.rv-sinks.com/products/25197.jpg" REL="nofollow">this</A> to your argument.<BR/><BR/>KEvronKEvronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16732621823124759996noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6708375.post-33382557505207667952008-08-01T23:20:00.000-04:002008-08-01T23:20:00.000-04:00"it seemed to me that you were.... advocating for ...<I>"it seemed to me that you were.... advocating for capital punishment."</I><BR/><BR/>i'm no member of the culture of life.<BR/><BR/>heh. your launch at me had me thinking you <I>were</I> a member.<BR/><BR/>KEvronKEvronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16732621823124759996noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6708375.post-19781570356850197262008-08-01T22:02:00.000-04:002008-08-01T22:02:00.000-04:00No he won't, because he'll be declared a dangerous...No he won't, because he'll be declared a dangerous offender, or criminally insane.<BR/><BR/>That guy is never, ever, seeing the outside of a prison cell again and it's stupid to pretend otherwise.Reality Biteshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10350104223630062677noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6708375.post-20299796050732785772008-08-01T21:51:00.000-04:002008-08-01T21:51:00.000-04:00He is being charged with second degree murder. He...He is being charged with second degree murder. He'd be eligible for parole in 10 - 25.Prolehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10578610891796675822noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6708375.post-328614813436095412008-08-01T21:32:00.000-04:002008-08-01T21:32:00.000-04:00This man sounds seriously ill. I couldn't possib...This man sounds seriously ill. I couldn't possibly see his execution as moral.Ti-Guyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06620550471437012866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6708375.post-15880626137882275242008-08-01T21:26:00.000-04:002008-08-01T21:26:00.000-04:00Sorry that I called you a nasty name KEvron, but w...Sorry that I called you a nasty name KEvron, but what it seemed to me that you were saying, bouncing around with all those disjointed multiple comments, was that you were advocating for capital punishment.deBeauxOshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08331662556005876488noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6708375.post-85301990820340948422008-08-01T20:58:00.000-04:002008-08-01T20:58:00.000-04:00Holly: jj, this suggestion: "Throw him in jail in...Holly: <I>jj, this suggestion: "Throw him in jail in General Pop, throw away the key and let nature take its course..." sounds just like something Stockwell Day said a few years ago.</I><BR/><BR/>Well what do ya know, Stockie and I have something in common after all.<BR/><BR/>Not. I obviously missed what Kevron was trying to say too, because that's not what I meant. <BR/><BR/>By "letting nature take its course", I'm not suggesting he be executed by vigilantes (although now that it's come up, if it happened, I can't say I'd care). I'm saying that this guy's life in general population wouldn't be as comfortable as it might be in PC, as he'd probably get his ass kicked once in awhile, like most inmates do. <BR/><BR/>Please note a few comments down from my original I replied to Kevron that with a guy like this, GP might not be such a good idea, for the safety of the other inmates.<BR/><BR/>Sorry for not being more clear.JJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09458917081261136618noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6708375.post-33392377008023202382008-08-01T19:45:00.000-04:002008-08-01T19:45:00.000-04:00"We're talking hot-blooded revenge, here, folks. T...<I>"We're talking hot-blooded revenge, here, folks. The moral arguments are a subterfuge."</I><BR/><BR/>bingo. e's own vengeful rage was evident when he first contemptuously broached the issue. on a left leaning blog, no less, as if there were no provocation in it.<BR/><BR/>KEvronKEvronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16732621823124759996noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6708375.post-79879655407010750582008-08-01T19:40:00.000-04:002008-08-01T19:40:00.000-04:00"It's a disaster in the U.S."even were it successf...<I>"It's a disaster in the U.S."</I><BR/><BR/>even were it successful, it'd be morally wrong.<BR/><BR/>as capote wrote, it's "in cold blood."<BR/><BR/>KEvronKEvronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16732621823124759996noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6708375.post-72120375027307153512008-08-01T19:39:00.000-04:002008-08-01T19:39:00.000-04:00"Why do people need to kill other people to satisf...<I>"Why do people need to kill other people to satisfy a need for retribution?"</I><BR/><BR/>because they're gaping assholes><BR/><BR/>KEvronKEvronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16732621823124759996noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6708375.post-37837794131094478812008-08-01T18:25:00.000-04:002008-08-01T18:25:00.000-04:00Thank God for that. It's a disaster in the U.S.Thank God for that. It's a disaster in the U.S.toujoursdanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08106158181662408311noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6708375.post-89131585522040293682008-08-01T18:03:00.000-04:002008-08-01T18:03:00.000-04:00Dearest American friends: Canada will not be re-in...Dearest American friends: Canada will not be re-instituting the death penalty.<BR/><BR/>Thank you.Ti-Guyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06620550471437012866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6708375.post-26842919491154006922008-08-01T17:58:00.000-04:002008-08-01T17:58:00.000-04:00A few years ago a well-respected and loved colleag...A few years ago a well-respected and loved colleague died (leaving her 18 month old daugher orphaned) in a stupid, stupid car accident that was caused by a distracted driver who went through a stop sign. Had you taken a poll the day we found out about her death, we may have all voted to execute that irresponsible driver, so great was our grief.<BR/><BR/>A shamefully high number of people are judged guilty of murder in courts of law, then later found to be innocent of the charge. Why do people need to kill other people to satisfy a need for retribution?deBeauxOshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08331662556005876488noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6708375.post-6562762511322182552008-08-01T17:33:00.000-04:002008-08-01T17:33:00.000-04:00jj, this suggestion: "Throw him in jail in General...jj, this suggestion: "Throw him in jail in General Pop, throw away the key and let nature take its course..." sounds just like something Stockwell Day said a few years ago.<BR/><BR/>I oppose the death penalty, but I would prefer execution by the state to encouraging murder by vigilantism. It's much like sending someone to Syria to be tortured so you can pretent your hands are clean. Immoral.<BR/><BR/>About Li, I would guess he's mentally ill. I've just heard someone on the radio saying he had been described as a big man, but in court he did not look that big.Holly Stickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01137842937086115228noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6708375.post-14234289013914859732008-08-01T17:12:00.000-04:002008-08-01T17:12:00.000-04:00Ultimately my contention is that the punishment fo...<I>Ultimately my contention is that the punishment for a crime should be on par with the offense created and that executing someone for jaywalking is WELL out of the range of the reasonable.</I><BR/><BR/>That's the crux of the thing. "Moral equivalence." Sounds easy. Is it?<BR/><BR/>Is murder with diminished capacity morally equivalent to murder by a "normal" person? Is second-degree murder (unpremeditated) "morally equivalent" to premeditated murder? In this case, must be, according to some, because capital punishment is being proposed as the same response to either. And because capital punishment itself is premeditated killing.<BR/><BR/>Is a murder equivalent to a rape? No. What about two rapes? Twenty?<BR/><BR/>How do you quantify this stuff in a moral calculus? "Moral equivalency" is bull.<BR/><BR/>We're talking hot-blooded revenge, here, folks. The moral arguments are a subterfuge. Self-delusion. <BR/><BR/>What's wrong with hot-blooded revenge? Anyone?Dr.Dawghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00416571487451925246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6708375.post-86960700083296469662008-08-01T17:11:00.000-04:002008-08-01T17:11:00.000-04:00At least until he manages to escape or get release...<I>At least until he manages to escape or get released on a 'work program' and murders twelve people.</I><BR/><BR/>Do we even have "work programs" for first-degree murderers in Canada?That guyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12254412890551965391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6708375.post-43918755371932090692008-08-01T17:00:00.000-04:002008-08-01T17:00:00.000-04:00even if the only deterrent force is in that the mu...<I>even if the only deterrent force is in that the murderer will never murder anyone again</I><BR/>Technically that is not deterrence, it is an attempt at preventing that person from murdering. I say attempt, because it could be they left orders for someone else to do murders after they are gone. You are still culpable if you hire a hit man so an executed murderer could technically kill again. Hairsplitting I know, but we are talking about murderers escaping prison and other low probability events.<BR/><BR/>Deterrence is causing someone who is still alive to think twice. Deterrence works for relatively normal people only, not usually for psychopaths. Criminals tend to believe they will not be caught. The inability to rationally weigh possibilities is one of the reasons people end up turning to crime in the first place.<BR/><BR/><BR/>I thought someone would talk about the "slippery slope" where we see they want to make child rape a capital offense. Naturally we think of 6 year olds when we say "child", but a 20 year old having sex with a 15 year old would be statutory rape, and would also qualify as child rape.liberal supporterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01129945625510633921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6708375.post-59809960072661518112008-08-01T16:52:00.000-04:002008-08-01T16:52:00.000-04:00Quitting time for me for today. You peeps have a g...<I>Quitting time for me for today. You peeps have a good weekend.</I><BR/>Blogging from work?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com