Tuesday, May 06, 2008

Why do I do this to myself?

The very concept of objective truth is fading out of the world. Lies will pass into history.
- George Orwell -

Looks like our gal Susie ALL-CAPS has a new post up about abstinence and for once, her true motivation starts to peek through. Buckle up 'cause it’s gonna get ugly.

I've been meaning to write this post about abstinence, but I just haven't gotten around it, and as long as we're on the subject I thought I'd write a few lines of my thoughts.

One of the things that I do not see in the talk about abstinence is the notion that abstinence cannot be purely an individual pursuit.

It's a collective effort.

Okay, that’s not that bad. I disagree with the whole concept of teaching abstinence but there’s very little that’s offensive about that passage — although I did start to giggle over the whole "abstinence ... cannot be purely an individual pursuit". I’m sorry, isn’t abstinence completely "an individual pursuit"? And can’t you go blind from all that individual pursuit? But I digress.

Kids cannot rely on their own willpower alone to keep themselves from temptation. Their lives must be programmed so that it's actually difficult to engage in sexual activity.

Here we go ... this is the motivation I hinted at. SUZANNE finally admits that she thinks kids should be programmed to think in a manner that is acceptable only to her and people just like her. Screw independent thought, screw individual decision-making, it’s all about control — from their bodies, to their minds, to their very thoughts. Hello George Orwell.

In our culture, preserving one's chastity by oneself is an enormous responsibility. Consider all the ways in which teenagers are exposed to sexual activity, and have the opportunity to engage in sexual activity. To expect growing children to just rely exclusivel[sic] on their own willpower is naive. I'm not saying that a teenager will jump at every opportunity to be unchaste. But they don't always know what the boundaries are (given that adults don't tell them) and even when they know what the boundaries are, they're willing to cross them just a little for what they think is a stronger show of love (in the moment).

Why SUZANNE, I am shocked. Don’t tell me you think teenagers might actually be doing it so they can feel loved? Here’s a heads-up, SUZE — they’re doing it because they’re teenagers which means they’re walking hormones. And yes, some of them truly believe they’re in love with the person that they’re with but most of them are just. Being. Teenagers.

In order for abstinence to work, kids can't go at it alone [again with the giggles – sorry]. They have to live a life that makes it hard for them to have sexual activity, and if adults don't contribute to that, kids are far more susceptible to fail in this quest. It's more than just a question of telling them "keep your legs closed".

As God is my witness, I have no idea where to go with that last statement ... It's more than just a question of telling them "keep your legs closed". I mean wow. Really. Just ... wow. If that’s HER idea of teaching abstinence, it’s no wonder most of these programs are complete and utter failures. I can’t take much more.

It's like telling a fat person to stop eating junk.

And now she’s picking on people who are overweight. Is there no end to her cruelty? That’s not very Christian.

There are powerful psychological and cultural forces that compel a kid to do what he knows is wrong in the heat of the moment. I don't know that we've addressed that. In any case, I don't see that. I see a lot of people saying kids should stay abstinent-- which I agree with-- but not a lot of adults saying that a teenagers' environment should be programmed so that it's hard for them to engage in sexual activity.

Is anyone else completely creeped out by how SHE keeps stressing the fact that kids should be "programmed"? I don't think it's just me.

The impression that I get is that adults feel it's entirely the kids' responsibility, not theirs-- even though we're talking about children who have not yet finished growing. That's probably too big a responsibility to lay on them by themselves.

Absolutely. So if we program them to be mindless little drones who do exactly what we tell them to and never, ever, NEVER think for themselves what a wonderful Utopian society we will have made.

Sweet mother of God, thanks to SUZANNE “mind control” should be listed as a form of child abuse. And now I have to go bleach my brain so I can get the pro-life, pro-mind-control, anti-individuality out. Is it too early for a martini?


¢rÄßG®äŠŠ said...

I like this bit: "I'm not saying that a teenager will jump at every opportunity to be unchaste."

When you need a euphemism for sex, well,... that's like needing a euphemism for "chocolate", isn't it? Because if you just come right out and say "chocolate", it's a bit indelicate.

So, cocoa-based consumables are some of my favourite treats.

Reality Bites said...

Of course most of the tried and true methods for "preserving chastity" involve activities limited to one sex under the supervision of adults who have a near fanatical devotion to spending all their waking hours with teens of the same sex.

Basically, kids suck. Anyone willing to spend time alone with them who is not actually compelled to by a legal and/or biological connection, is somewhat suspicious.

Adam C said...

In defense of SUZANNE (I can't believe I'm typing that), I don't think that her use of the word "programmed" has the same meaning that you're ascribing to it, Lulu. I think it should be more on the lines of "scheduled" or "arranged". The intent would be to prevent the kids from having unchaperoned time, at parties or one-on-one, where the opportunity (and perhaps pressure) for sex would occur.

Unfortunately this has proven difficult since the days of the invention of the automobile.

Still, I don't think anything she wrote is offensive, or even necessarily a bad idea, as long as it's not carried to extremes. The NRO bullshit she quoted off the top, on the other hand...

Chet Scoville said...

"Keep your legs closed," huh? Funny how it seems to be only girls' sexuality she's worried about controlling there.

LuLu said...

Funny how it seems to be only girls' sexuality she's worried about controlling there.

That's because in the average Conservative misogynist mindset, boys would behave if the girls didn't act like such sluts all the time.

¢rÄßG®äŠŠ said...

adam: "Unfortunately this has proven difficult since the days of the invention of the automobile.

And the penis.

I wonder if all-girl parties can safely go unchaperoned in SUZANNE's world. I can't imagine that that kind of unchaste sits well with HER, either.

jj said...

Is it too early for a martini?

It's 5:00 in London, have a gin & tonic.

I wonder if SUZANNE would be okay with Chastity Belts for these unruly little sex fiends?

Ti-Guy said...

I hope she starts talking about patent leather shoes soon. That would be deliciously retro. And something about how Sister Inviolata scolded her in Catholic school for her wanton harlotry; that's always a hoot.

She really should stop searching the web for porn and television for innapropriate content (as well as reading all those religious sites feeding her a steady diet buttsex and gang-bangs and butt-gangs and well...whatever). In her delicate condition (ie. deranged), I'm not sure all that's good for her.

LuLu said...

Ah yes, patent leather - the shoes of the Deeeeeviiiiiillll. 'Cause they're shiny and reflect your panties if you're wearing a kilt. Catholics are so filthy sometimes. I went to Catholic school from kindergarten right through to high school so I know what I'm talking about.

And, strangely enough, I'm wearing my brand new red patent leather Mary Janes even as we speak. Coincidence? I think not.

Southern Quebec said...

Ah, lulu. If you're wearing a kilt, yer not wearing panties. :)

KEvron said...

peer pressure never made me want to have sex. boner pressure did.


¢rÄßG®äŠŠ said...

This thread is really shaping up nicely.

LuLu said...

Sorry SQ ... I think that rule only applies to real Scotsmen ;-)

Mike said...

SQ as long as she is wearing the boots, everything is good.

So, speaking as a former teenager and the father of 3 (including a girl), I don't care if teens are obstinate, so long as they are safe. We are programmed by biology to active during those years.

If she doesn't want her kids to be active, she can try it with her kids. She should mind her own fucking business with mine or everyone else's.

I don't think being chaste is a virtue. I think its rather stupid, like peeing into the wind.

Mike said...

er , abstinent ... Freudian slip I guess...

Ti-Guy said...

Promiscuity is no virtue either. I think the issue here is to learn to take responsibility for your actions, and the idea that the responsibility is all going to fall on the girl while the guy just *does what he does* is, well sexist; mysoginyst and misandrist at the same time.

It treats everyone as if they're stupid, and coming from the intellectually-challenged SoCons, that's a little hard to take.

Mike said...

"Promiscuity is no virtue either. I think the issue here is to learn to take responsibility for your actions"

Exactly. And we help kids be responsible when we treat them with intelligence and stop pretending a 16 year old is of the same maturity as a 10 or 12 year old.

Of course, that would require parents to be well, parents and talk to their kids, rather than relying on criminal laws and the idea of banning contraceptives as a way of getting everyone else to look after your kids for you.

pretty shaved ape said...

dear fortin children,
on behalf of adults that aren't out of their flipping minds, you have our deepest sympathies. your adolescence is going to be a hellish nightmare. rebel early and rebel often. good luck to you.

Frank Frink said...

Ti-Guy @ 3:10 PM
Mike @ 3:20 PM

Still ever so grateful I had that kind of parents. They figured they would have to prepare me for 'stuff' realizing that I would be, at the age of 16, off to university 850 km out of sight.

Not that it would provide 100% assurance or certainty that I might not do some stupid things or make some bad choices, but what 16 year-old hasn't, well, acted like a 16 year-old?

I'll hazard a guess, Ti-Guy, that your kids turned out alright. Think Mike's propbably will, too.

As far as SUSY, well geez... chastity belts for all teens, not to be removed until wedding night. And lots of saltpeter in their diet?

mikmik said...

Let's research:Sexual abstinance
For example, psychologist J.M. Prescott, in a cross-cultural investigation published in The Bulletin of Atomic Scientists (1975), found that societies forbidding premarital sex are plagued by acts of rage, and tend to have higher rates of crime and violence. Prescott also found a link between sexual repression and aggression, insensitivity, criminal behavior, and a greater likelihood of killing and torturing enemies.
The study, published in 1997 in the British Medical Journal found that "men who reported the highest frequency of orgasm enjoyed a death rate half that of the laggards." The report cited other studies to show that having sex even a few times a week may be associated with; improved sense of smell, reduced risk of heart disease, weight loss and overall fitness, reduced depression (in women), pain-relief, less-frequent colds and flu, better bladder control, better teeth, and improved prostate function.

Oh, no, more bad news:
No-sex programmes 'not working' - "Sex abstinence programmes do not stop risky sexual behaviour or help in the prevention of unwanted pregnancy"

However, I think (it happens!) there is no need to program children and fundie daddies can delight in the close relationships they develope with their daughters (like those 'pledges of abstinance parties with fathers and very young daughters). Regarde:
Chastity belt

Bonus! Shiny boots will immediately help to show who is available! Laddies, time for the kilts

LuLu said...

All kidding aside about kilts and Mary Janes, what I’ve never been able to understand about conservatives is how incredibly repressive (and oppressive) they truly are.

Repress your individuality, your sexuality, your imagination, creativity, etc., etc., ad nauseum, forever and ever a-fucking-men ... until you end up with some very screwed-up people (hello Reverend Haggard, Senator Wide Stance) because they've never been allowed to be themselves.

Ti-Guy said...

I'll hazard a guess, Ti-Guy, that your kids turned out alright.

Not one conviction that stood up on appeal.

*preen preen*

geo said...

Oh wow! some of my fav favs; kids (2 of them that never shut up), chocolate, sex, chocolate, kilts, patent leather boots/shoes ...I remember my first pair (real leather) and the warning about my panties! (early 60's in Nova Scotia from my older sister).

But one thing I could never get a satisfactory answer for is; at what number of partners (thinking about delightful men in kilts with chocolate, so confident, a man in a skirt bearing candy:) does promiscuity kick in?

Frank, you lucky guy with folks like that.

ti-guy: *preen preen* LOL

Sigh, I'm betting her kids know all of her bookmarks of all of her porn sites and she thinks that her "babies" would never, NEVER look at such filth!


dilettante.ca said...

It's never too early for a martini.

Frank Frink said...

Sigh, I'm betting her kids know all of her bookmarks of all of her porn sites and she thinks that her "babies" would never, NEVER look at such filth!

Maybe her 'babies' are just checking out eBay instead.

"something about the shape of this particular cashew reflects the shape of our society"

geo said...

ebay has a "little" something for everyone doesn't it?

Prole said...

Is it any wonder that it's the social conservatives among us that are into diapers and wetsuits?

The Seer said...

In a 5/7/08 comment thread,Suzanne sez: "I didn't have too many boyfriends when I was a teenager. I didn't miss much. Most romantic relationships are fleeting and of no long-term value. A waste of time, really."

Purple library guy said...

As to Cons going around wanting everyone treated as if they were stupid, it's only natural. People often think of others as being essentially like themselves . . .